Bad News

"Zero tolerance" is a deliberate policy of enforcing laws and regulations without using discretion and common sense. A broad law that is not tempered with discretion and common sense is like a blade that has been hardened, but not yet tempered. In use it will break.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
"Zero tolerance" Doesn`t that term make you just swell with pride? I know I`m proud of my town`s "zero tolerance" toward anything remotely weapon-like.

(Sarcasm mode disabled, rant mode enabled)

The public school is one of the last places in this country where you literally check your rights at the door. You are subject to search and seizure without probable cause. You are subject to punishment without being able to face your accusers. The list goes on and on. Recent school violence has made this situation much worse. What do you suppose this sort of treatment teaches kids?
 
When I was in school all the guys carried a pocket knife. Noone was a victim of any knife violence that I ever heard of. This is just another proof of the assertion that the two most common things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity
 
I can almost (Read: *Almost*) Understand no knives in school. But her car!? That's like going to her house and looking through her room, finding a knife, and suspending her. It's her car! I am a Senior in High school and last year I had a book called "Weapons, from 20000 B.C. to 2000 A.D." During a bomb threat last year, they searched our lockers, found the book (Which has slings, swords, guns and stuff, specifications and pictures and the like) and I stayed in the principal's office for 4 hours while they tried to contact my mom. When they did, we went to my house (Her car was being fixed) and the Assisstant Principal realized he knew my mom and we came back to school. I returned to class, amid questions from everybody. EVERYBODY!

*whew*

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David Gardner
Vineland NJ

"If you fake the Funk, your nose will grow."
-W. Bootsy Collins


 
I don't think the educated,liberal protectionists would realize that the cars that are driven to school are more dangerous when used as a weapon than the pocket knife.nor do they realize the potential weapons in the car such as the gasoline and a pop bottle,the car jack etc.I wish people would wake up.Should we arrest police officers because they might go bad,they do have the tools to do mass destruction? Ignorance comes in all shapes and sizes.Whether the original laws were enacted to help or not some people just can't see past the end of thier noses.reminds me of the democrat that asks me for 10.00 to fund a project and I say no,so the guy comes back and in the"spirit of comprimise" comes back and tells me that I owe 5.00 in tax.I did not want to give any more and since we all gotta live together I still loose 5.00 our rights are going the same way a little at a time just to comprimise and get along-according to THEM.
 
First the obvious, a small knife should be in every glove compartment in the world. The girl should be let go because it was not a weapon. You should be expected to carry incendiaries (auto flares), chains, tire irons, and maybe even a hatchet in your car.

That said, you do need special rules for public schools. A public school is essentially a type of prison. You are forced to go there and labor for no pay. You have no control over your cell mates, many of whom have problems with an over abundance of recently aquired testosterone. The diversity of the students in city schools adds oportunities for frictions and misunderstandings. The students are crammed together in greater numbers and in higher proximity than normal society. The students are captives under pressure to conform and perform.

The school characteristic that particularly needs to be considered is proximity. The students are so close together that there is often no time to intervene when something goes wrong. Even a knife can do a lot of harm in the context of a crowded hallway while a gun in the car can imperil an unusually large number of unarmed people at a school.

It might seem like all you need to do is keep an eye on trouble-making students. That is more like what we did in years past. If a kid who's an amateur gunsmith brings an antique to school he is probably not a hazard, while a thug with a carpet knife is a serious threat. The trouble is that it is considered discriminatory to only search "bad" students. (That's exactly what is intended, to use our powers of discretion to select who to search). We have legal problems searching people without probable cause. This is true regardless of race or ethnicity. When you throw race, ethnicity, and gender into the mix, you run the risk of violating anti-discrimination laws. Why should only guys with low-hanging pants and tatoos get searched?

So we get this stupid practise of random searches that have to involve harmless young women. Within the halls of schools you need to draw some precise, enforceable, standards that let you take the carpet knife away from the thug. There is a real question whether you can allow SAK's and ban razor utility knives. School administrators often set the rules as broad as possible to proscribe the odd thing a student may use as a weapon. Back in my youth a broken car antenna or a bicycle chain were considered obvious weapons, while a Scout knife wasn't.

The way to add intelligence into the situation is to volunteer for participation in school advisory bodies. Go help your local principals. Join the district accountability committees, etc. Try and find simple defenseable standards that reasonably protect the children that we have put in this vulnerable environment we call school. Once you get there, you'll find so many challenges that you will likely shrug off a few incidental searches and suspensions. You wouldn't believe the types of real threats that occur, even in good high schools. By holding to a tough line on the "letter of the regulations" the administrators are trying to have the tools they need to insure they will be able to isolate the serious threats when they occur.

The suspended student and her mother may actually be right. It is a small matter for them to suffer from a bogus suspension, if it gives the school the tools it needs to protect student safety. The students need the extra protection. If they even so much as ditch school to avoid danger they will have to defend themselves from charges of truancy.



[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 23 November 1999).]
 
Hello,

I do know that my Step-son KRIS has been
asked buy Teachers at his School, to bring in some of the Bare blanks I make because they were interested in seeing what I do and make. Also just last week he took his small Utility Drop point I made him for his birthday to school to show a few teachers.

It had a 3.5 inch blade on it, full Tang
construction with Black Micarta grip panel`s
in a Kydex sheath, He had no problems whatsoever showing it to a couple teachers.

I think it might have been because he asked Prior to bringing it, and also that with Prior Knowledge that he was going to bring it to Show it , it didnt come as a shock to the School Authoritys.

I have even been Asked to Come to His High school Metals shop and share with the students, information about metal working techniques and to bring some of my Cutlery to display.

I do know that our school district has the NO tolerance policy ,,they just seem to Use this policy for what it was designed for,,to keep Trouble making kids honest, and to keep those with Violent Tendencys out of the public school system.

I have no comment on Jesse jackson ,,I think the guy is an ignorant ass(quote me if you like).

Thanks, Allen Blade
 
Here's a couple more instances of stupidity:

In the 6th grade, several years back, my father worked at DCDC (Washington D.C. Department of Corrections). He brought home some crude shanks made out of screwdrivers, bits of steel, anything, and taken from inmates cells. They were so dull, they wouldn't cut butter. I wanted to take them to school to show my teacher but was not allowed due to the "zero tolerance" crap.


On Dateline a few weeks ago there was a story about a girl suspended because on the flip-side of her fingernail clippers was a dull 3/4 in. knife.

I think this kind of stuff is why I still feel weird about carrying a knife today. Public Schools really need to re-think their policies.
 
Now this is truly a sad story about our sorry excuse for laws! I used to live in Lexington Kentucky a couple of years ago. It was around this time that I saw a public service announcement from the superintendent of schools, who used to work in Los Angeles, if memory serves correctly. He began this "commercial" by saying, "Guns and knives have no place in our schools as well as our homes..."!!!!!!! Hmmm....I wonder how his wife prepares meals and so on??!? I saw the announcement once, and apparently was pulled off the air for it's completely assnine message. It amazes me that in a place like Amerika that people like this bozo and the bozos in Colorado achieve their positions of power, because it sure isn't from their superior intelectual ability!
frown.gif
Meybe they should use a knife to surgically remove their heads from their a**ses, since they don't seem to want to remove them themselves. And now, excuse me while I go vomit
frown.gif


This afterthought just occured to me. Has common sense died in this country, or have our brains after being soaked in the continous rays of the Television been reduced to gray useless goop?

Take care,
John Johnson

"It takes a village to ruin a child."
"Kill yer Television."

[This message has been edited by John Johnson (edited 23 November 1999).]
 
For the last three years I was asked to go to my daughters' school for career day to talk about knifemaking. I would talk about knives as tools and the process that goes into making them. I also talked about knife safety. Many of the teachers were grateful I would show them as a tool and take away the perceptions many of the kids had from TV and movies of knives as weapons only.
After Columbine I was told I would no longer be able to participate in Career Day or bring my knives to school.
None of the staff at the school supported this decision and apologized that it was taken out of their hands.
Its a sad day when we exclude education because of mass fear.


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I Carry My Crosses for Christ to Give any Glory to God.
centercross.com
geneosborn@centercross.com
Fort Worth, TX

 
All I can add to this madness is :What do you expect from the "Governmink" (not public) Fool System?
 
Thirty+ years ago schools had a very straight forward mission to educate our kids. Today, they are surrogate parents, security operations, halfway houses, social service providers, child abuse monitors and community centers first - educators second. We are going to have to cull out the loosers to give the rest of the students a chance to learn something.

If we get rid of the basket cases (reform school + army would be good); stabalize the situation, and then relax the security measures; the quality of education would improve dramatically.
 
With this thread in mind, I just finished drafting a letter to our Board of Education asking to be considered to fill a vacant seat on our school board. Wether I get it or not, I'll be running in the next election for the position. There has got to be a way to back away from this nonsense.
Gene (Center Cross), sorry to hear someone of your moral standards, unselfishly providing knowledge and guidance, couldn't be allowed to expose the little dears to the real world.
Our kids need to know the safe and proper uses of knives and all other tools.
This really saddens me.
 
The real problem in all of these cases is that the children in the
schools involved have a lot more common sense, I suspect, than the
administrators and officials involved.

The kids know something is wrong when one of the most upstanding
students in their class, a girl they all know and look up to as a star
student, and good friend, and great person, a girl who would never hurt
anyone, gets suspended for having a very small folding knife in a first
aide kit in the trunk of her car. The kids know that that is wrong.
They know a miscarriage of justice they see one. And yet, they also see
that same girl marched out the door and they see her empty chair each
day in the classroom.

What does this teach them? It teaches them that "the system" is not
fair. That they do not live in a reasonable and just nation. It
teaches them to fear and distrust the government and authorities.

What can those children think when those same people then try to tell
them, "Don't do drugs," "Don't have sex outside of marriage," "Stay in
school," "Go to college"?

How can those same authorities expect the students to trust them if one
of those students has a personal problem or maybe if one of those
students becomes aware of a real, serious problem brewing amongst the
student body?

Friends, once you're done venting here,take a few minutes and share your concerns with

Principal MICHAEL POORE
Mitchell High School
1205 POTTER DRIVE
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80909-6999

Curiously, the school's own web site is down right now.




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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
 
You're right on the mark, Gollnick
How can any intelligent youngster have any respect for a school administration that pulls a stunt like this?
I WILL contact the principle, and why not the school's board of education, too?
BTW, I got a call last eve from our board of ed. pres. inviting me to an interview with our school board.
wish me luck
 
I am glad I graduated when I did. I MADE knives in my metal shop class back in High school. Even had the principle's permission to do so. I don't get it. I always carried a knife, and no one ever complained. Even when I was narc-ed off when my Bali fell out of my pocket in Junior High, it was given back to me. The world has gone crazy and people are so willing to give up freedom for security.

We have become our own worst enemy.

YeK
 
Not every place in the world has lost all sense. One of my nephews graduated from a high school in Nicholasville, KY (same town AT Barr lives in) a year or two ago. In his metal shop class all the students were required to make a knife. All shaping done by hand too. I think the only power tools they used were the drill presses for attaching handle slabs. I was very proud of him, and his school for that matter. They all had their knives on display on a day that the families could come and visit the school and see what the different classes and students were doing all year (I can't remember what they call that day). There is still a little common sense in this world.

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Paul Davidson

Them:"What's that clipped to your pocket, a beeper?"
Me:"Uuh....yeah, something like that."


 
Paul Davidson, not any more. Some lady wrote a letter to the local paper a few
months ago, complaining about the knife making. I wrote a letter to the same paper
the next day. At the next school board meeting, they decided to stop the knife
makeing. Again, the vocal minority wins.



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A.T.
http://www.customknives.com
 
The idiotic decisions made by the "education community" over the last several months prove what an old professor said to me about 30 years ago. Quote I fear that the future teachers and administrators of the education system will be mostly those who have never done anything in real life. All they know is what the have read in a book or were taught by some professor and have no way of knowing what is true and what is false. Since they only have someone elses
idea and no experience of their own go on they must depend on the ability of those who taught them. end quote. Now as even the dumbest of humans knows, the human mind only
picks up a percentage of what we are taught.
The accepted percentage is debated but the most common figure is about 70%. Even if the begining teacher was 100% correct, those he taught would be only 70% correct, those they taught would be only 70% of 70% correct and so on down the line to the present. If these calculations are anywhere near correct then the ones making the decisions today are less than 10% correct. The Surgeon General we had 4 or 5 years ago validates the old professors logic. And just think, if she is among the best and brightest, then it's no wonder the general public holds the people of Arkansas in such low regard.

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old pete
 
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