Bad reputation

Lee D said:
Oh absolutely, I’m not suggesting it’s all good, but with a bit of research (something I do no matter where a knife is made) I think a fella can find a great knife. WE and Reate are two I’d feel safe buying from, the others aren’t there in my eyes yet.
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Yep. And Civivi it seems is getting a good rep as well. I don't have one yet, but enough folks do and apparently are finding quality.

I get what you were saying though. It used to be that marking it as made in China just about guaranteed a POS.

Went to college with a kid from China. I remember him telling me one time "If you want good Chinese food, you gotta go to America to get it."

I LOL'd at the time thinking "Man! Even the Chinese don't want to buy Chinese stuff!"
 
There was a time when people cut things, actually used the implement, before Benchmade started stamping the blade material on the blade as a selling point. These threads always have the same trajectory: a blade steel is noted as "Bad", but then it evolves to heat treat, then the material doesn't perform to someone's personal metric, and edge geometry then gets thrown around.

the Elmax nonsense started with some users reporting that they received knives with "Burnt" edges, supposedly from power sharpening. Then a few you tubers experienced some edge chipping, and then the internet attacked. Kai tested some samples and found no issues with the material. I believe the first use of it was in 2011.
 
Yo Mama said:
None, again, really again, my whole point of the thread. The rep elmax had, including here was what always kept me from hitting add to cart. Is that fair? That's my question. I know already it's not fair to elmax, but it's reality. I didn't know if I was the only one, or if there are other materials that have simular bad reps, where it wasn't their fault, but the consequences continued over time.
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Elmax did not and does not have that rep here. If you look at the threads over time on this, you will see exactly what is happening in this thread: people pointing out that there was a small issue a long time ago with some ZTs. The issue was fixed quickly but damage was done by fear mongers, drama queens, and out-right liars (jdavis882 if memory serves), especially on youtube.

The only hit that elmax has taken is from people who only believe what they read and see from unreliable and pot-stirring sources rather than facts from trusted people who know what they are talking about based on experience and knowledge.

I think the lack of elmax in production knives is more akin to availability at a manufacturer level, rather than people like you not wanting to buy it because of internet rumors. I'd never worry about elmax from a reputable company, even ZT. I've had good results with elmax from GT, Busse, and several ZTs. I don't worry about VG10 from Spyderco, but I do from Falkniven. This seems more like a manufacturer issue rather than a steel issue since ultimately the maker brings the steel to market however they want it, with the exception of unintentional errors. I don't worry about good companies screwing me. I think rational people look at this situation similarly.
 
AF said:
I wasn't aware of the bad batch from ZT but I certainly wouldn't write off the steel. However, I owned a ZT in S35VN that seemed to be run very soft. I do hold that against ZT and it might affect my future purchases.
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This was my experience as well. I sold my ZTs after I started thinking they were pocket jewelry for people with some sort of hipster EDC fetish. Not working knives. It probably didn’t help that my first ZTs were like that. I have used Cold Steel knives for 30+ years. I bought a Swift and was disappointed in the cts xhp. If that had been my first cold steel, I might not like them either.


I am willing to accept that I may be wrong but I have managed to survive without ZT.
 
DMG said:
This was my experience as well. I sold my ZTs after I started thinking they were pocket jewelry for people with some sort of hipster EDC fetish. Not working knives. It probably didn’t help that my first ZTs were like that. I have used Cold Steel knives for 30+ years. I bought a Swift and was disappointed in the cts xhp. If that had been my first cold steel, I might not like them either.


I am willing to accept that I may be wrong but I have managed to survive without ZT.
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You aren't wrong. I get along fine without any ZT pieces in my stable as well.

Got to admit, I've been on this forum for over 20 years, and this is really the first I've heard of the ZT/Elmax thing. Perhaps it's part and parcel that I haven't given a second look to any of ZT's stuff, and maybe because I'm not a Super Steel chaser and really haven't an interest in Elmax either.

However, I won't buy a Benchmade in 3V, simply because of their reputation for running the steel softer than they need to.

Guess I'm guilty of "not buying because of the rep" after all.
 
Velitrius said:
You aren't wrong. I get along fine without any ZT pieces in my stable as well.

Got to admit, I've been on this forum for over 20 years, and this is really the first I've heard of the ZT/Elmax thing. Perhaps it's part and parcel that I haven't given a second look to any of ZT's stuff, and maybe because I'm not a Super Steel chaser and really haven't an interest in Elmax either.

However, I won't buy a Benchmade in 3V, simply because of their reputation for running the steel softer than they need to.

Guess I'm guilty of "not buying because of the rep" after all.
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That s rep of company, not material though. That is much more rational.
 
Velitrius said:
You aren't wrong. I get along fine without any ZT pieces in my stable as well.

Got to admit, I've been on this forum for over 20 years, and this is really the first I've heard of the ZT/Elmax thing. Perhaps it's part and parcel that I haven't given a second look to any of ZT's stuff, and maybe because I'm not a Super Steel chaser and really haven't an interest in Elmax either.

However, I won't buy a Benchmade in 3V, simply because of their reputation for running the steel softer than they need to.

Guess I'm guilty of "not buying because of the rep" after all.
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at least Benchmade was smart after they screwed up the 3V. They ditched it and went with M4 which they have done well for a long time.
 
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I like ZT just fine as long as it's a design I like - they seem to be making a lot of designs that I don't care for these days though. My best real world working experience with ZT is when I skinned an elk with a 0301 in S30v. That did me right, I didn't have to pause to touch up the blade like I would have using a Buck or something else in a cheaper steel.

I hadn't heard of the controversy regarding ZT and Elmax so I had no idea that Elmax had any sort of poor reputation. I always viewed the steel as being a high end steel with good toughness and edge holding capabilities.

The only knife I have in Elmax is the one pictured below. I haven't had a chance to put it to significant use yet but when I do and should I find anything of note, I'll be sure to report back.

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I had never heard of this issue with ZT Elmax until now.
I have an 0801 with it and love it. Actually one of my favorite knives and steel. I have looked for more blades in it but just haven’t seen one I want yet.
 
DMG said:
at least Benchmade was smart after they screwed up the 3V. They ditched it and went with 4V which they have done well for a long time.
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I think you mean M4, but that's only half the story. The M4 version of the bailout was a complete upgrade of both the blade and handle. They still make the base model with grivory and the 3V that caused all the controversy. They even listened to the people who were complaining and started treating their 3V to a higher rockwell hardness, and will replace the older softer blades for free under warranty. So in the end they made it right, yet people still say they heat treat 3V too soft.
 
Silent H said:
I think you mean M4, but that's only half the story. The M4 version of the bailout was a complete upgrade of both the blade and handle. They still make the base model with grivory and the 3V that caused all the controversy. They even listened to the people who were complaining and started treating their 3V to a higher rockwell hardness, and will replace the older softer blades for free under warranty. So in the end they made it right, yet people still say they heat treat 3V too soft.
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Yep. I meant M4
 
Read the first page, 'twas enough.

Before I bought my first Elmax blade, ZT0561, searched and read here about the steel.
Found a few negative comments. Read more, seemed to me that negative comments came as hearsay, actual owners/users had positive experiences, and that there may have been some issue with a very early batch of ZT's Elmax blades, which was soon rectified. Bought the 0561, I would say I've had no problems at all but fact is I've hardly used it.

Then bought an Elmax ZT0562 and I have and do use it a lot, really like this folder. I'm honestly glad I got the 0562 before they changed from Elmax to S35VN (I like S35VN just fine).

The 0562 and PM2 are the 2 Elmax folders that have shown me what a great steel this is for an EDC blade, especially with its balance of edge holding and ease of sharpening/touching up. My short list of favorite EDC blade steels based on my own experience has Elmax right up there.

Also, if Microtech uses M390, 204P, and Elmax in the same models, to think one of the three is a lemon is to fail to think rationally.
 
Someone gifted me a 0561 in Elmax. I had no experience with Elmax before and have been very impressed by it and have been looking for more knives with Elmax. I find it a very balanced steel. I would be curious about the HRC.
 
I used to frequent this forum a lot more when I was younger. I recently came back after I purchased a hawk for entertainment. I kinda left the knife scene after I bought my Microtech Ultratech in Elmax once automatics were legalized in Texas. It's a 03/17 model.

This knife has been in my pocket basically every single day since I've purchased it. There was a short while where I carried a BM Fact because it was super cool and stabby, but I came back to my MTU. The only time I carry anything else is when I travel out of state (to non friendly places). I recently have been looking at a GT040, not sure what steel they have, but if it was Elmax I'd buy it without looking into it further.
 
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