Troop
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Uncle Ted has it right! :thumbup:
"Bad things don't happen on the trail..." a/k/a "If she only had a pistol..."
- Thread starter Don Rearic
- Start date
Uncle Ted has it right! :thumbup:
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- Feb 19, 2010
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- 41
I just found this post and read all 10 pages of it to make sure someone didn't already make the point I'd like to point out.
We'll never know the true story and the report didn't give enough details on how the young lady was accosted on the trail. He had a knife and a stick. I've taught martial arts for over 20 years and we practice knife take aways. I tell my students that this is only a "last ditch resort" because no matter how good you get at taking a knife away the attacker only has to be "lucky" for you to be seriously injured or killed.
Not to belittle this woman's actions at all but no one here has mentioned our best weapon which we have with us at all times but in some situations fail to use properly......our brains.
A gun, knife, hatchet, or ?? is only for when you're cornered and in fear of your life and these should be last resort weapons when you've no other recourse. They can and have been turned against the person who tries to use them.
If at all possible weight your options to avoid the confrontation. Can I run away? Can I drop what the person wants and make a get away? I tell my students that being in good condition and able to run is a first line of defense. Most criminals are in poor shape. A good block of sprinting and the matter is closed.
We don't know if he had her cornered or not. The details are too slim in the article.
My only point is to others reading this thread and not to rag on her for her choices. No one not in her position can know the mental state of either party involved.
My point is to those who may feel that a gun, knife, or ?? is the ultimate solution for any situation you may run into on the trail, street, or home. Know your own abilities and be mentally prepared with as many options as you can have.
One self defense expert had this simple axiom if you're accosted in the streets.
"Show it, drop it, and RUN" and scream "FIRE!!' since that gets everyone's attention.
Again, I feel sorry that this happens to anyone and her legacy should be remembered by being prepared better mentally so you or your loved ones won't face the same or a similar situation.
Peace
We'll never know the true story and the report didn't give enough details on how the young lady was accosted on the trail. He had a knife and a stick. I've taught martial arts for over 20 years and we practice knife take aways. I tell my students that this is only a "last ditch resort" because no matter how good you get at taking a knife away the attacker only has to be "lucky" for you to be seriously injured or killed.
Not to belittle this woman's actions at all but no one here has mentioned our best weapon which we have with us at all times but in some situations fail to use properly......our brains.
A gun, knife, hatchet, or ?? is only for when you're cornered and in fear of your life and these should be last resort weapons when you've no other recourse. They can and have been turned against the person who tries to use them.
If at all possible weight your options to avoid the confrontation. Can I run away? Can I drop what the person wants and make a get away? I tell my students that being in good condition and able to run is a first line of defense. Most criminals are in poor shape. A good block of sprinting and the matter is closed.
We don't know if he had her cornered or not. The details are too slim in the article.
My only point is to others reading this thread and not to rag on her for her choices. No one not in her position can know the mental state of either party involved.
My point is to those who may feel that a gun, knife, or ?? is the ultimate solution for any situation you may run into on the trail, street, or home. Know your own abilities and be mentally prepared with as many options as you can have.
One self defense expert had this simple axiom if you're accosted in the streets.
"Show it, drop it, and RUN" and scream "FIRE!!' since that gets everyone's attention.
Again, I feel sorry that this happens to anyone and her legacy should be remembered by being prepared better mentally so you or your loved ones won't face the same or a similar situation.
Peace
Don I didn't mean to come off as insulting, by crazy I meant fanatical, not mentally instable. One could argue the way you patronize people is insulting.
I am not against guns I love them I own them. I carry them in the woods. At some point I will get a carry permit.
I just don't think suppressors and machine guns or the other more destructive things should be easily available to the public.
I agree with Ted "a good law-abiding citizen not convicted of a felony" the ONLY way to ensure that it is those people who purchase the guns legally is thru the paperwork and background check you do when you purchase a gun thru an FFL dealer. If guns are allowed to be sold person to person or with no checks then how do we prevent the felons, the abusers, the mentally ill, and children from buying them???? Thoughts ideas? If there is a better way tell me.
I use paypal only when I sell knives on here. Not just cuz it's easy but it's the best way to ensure that probably the person I sell a knife to is over 18.
I am not against guns I love them I own them. I carry them in the woods. At some point I will get a carry permit.
I just don't think suppressors and machine guns or the other more destructive things should be easily available to the public.
I agree with Ted "a good law-abiding citizen not convicted of a felony" the ONLY way to ensure that it is those people who purchase the guns legally is thru the paperwork and background check you do when you purchase a gun thru an FFL dealer. If guns are allowed to be sold person to person or with no checks then how do we prevent the felons, the abusers, the mentally ill, and children from buying them???? Thoughts ideas? If there is a better way tell me.
I use paypal only when I sell knives on here. Not just cuz it's easy but it's the best way to ensure that probably the person I sell a knife to is over 18.
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I don't really think Joe Average should be able to walk into Dick's Sporting Goods and come out with a couple of hand grenades, just to clarify.
As far as automatic weapons are concerned, since no more can be made except from old parts prior to a date I cannot remember, I think it is 1987 or 1986, they are so expensive now it doesn't matter. I would have to hit the lottery to ever own one, anyway.
Short-Barrelled Rifles and Shotguns and "Gadget Guns" and stuff like that, perhaps I could save up to purchase one legally one day but it is doubtful, it's just in the realm for "the better off than I am."
I would love to own a couple of suppressors, ones that I could swap out on a Ruger 10/22 and 77/22 and also have an integrally-suppressed old MKII.
When I see what are essentially anti-gun arguments being made against these things, I don't like it. Don't agree with it. :::shrug:::
It doesn't matter how much I don't like things or wish things would change. I think The Heller Decision is a step forward in preserving the Second Amendment and I think more good news is coming when Chicago loses it's discriminatory gun ban as well. That doesn't have anything to do with suppressors, I'm just sayin'.
You have a real issue with this stuff, you injected it into the thread. I don't know why and don't really care. I'm just having a conversation.
I already spoke my piece about "domestic violence." There are thousands of people who cannot own firearms that their fathers and grandfathers left for them not because they beat their wives but simply because they said the wrong thing during the heat of an argument or even participated in a shoving or screaming match with their spouse or something similar to that. No, I don't agree that those people should be denied their Second Amendment rights. No, I don't believe their personal property should be confiscated on the spot by law enforcement and to show you how stupid this type of behavior can be, I have watched on at least two occasions, the show "COPS" where they go into a situation like that and ask the wife if there are guns in the house and they may or may not collect them based on that information and then they ask, "Are there any hunting or combat knives" or anything similar to that, I don't think they asked about "fighting" knives as I recall and the guy might have had a couple old Buck knives or whatever that went out the door with Officer Friendly.
But they didn't empty the kitchen drawers. So, if they are removing knives from the home because the guy might return and use it on his wife, or vice-versa, well, what is that all about?
It's about appearances.
I would never hit my wife. Contrary to what is probably proper opinion around here with some of my detractors, I don't even make a habit of raising my voice. I have, in the past, had girlfriends that would probably piss off The Pope and I'm glad I didn't succomb to the anger I felt in dealing with their nonsense by getting into some type of protracted domestic dispute with them.
Hell, I know one guy I used to work with who lost his right to own a firearm because his live-in girlfriend threw part of their home stereo system at him and he sort of caught it in midair and while trying to exit the apartment, she got in his way and he physically shoved her out of the way so he could escape from her crazy ass. Guess what? He was arrested for battery. This is nonsense and I don't support it. There is a hell of a difference between "wife beating" and what passes for "domestic violence" today.
Merchants have been deluding themselves for years thinking that kids don't buy everything from switchblades to lockpicks on the Internet with credit cards that they shouldn't have access to or shouldn't be able to use. I would imagine that PayPal is used in the same manner. But if it makes you sleep better, that's fine, too. And I don't mean to be rude or "patronizing," but what I just typed is the truth as far as I'm concerned.
I have to tell ya, you have a can opener in your hand and you can go to town opening up cans of worms! I'm 41, when I was a kid, we all had pocketknives before we had pubic hair, what a different world it is now where kids are not even trusted with pocketknives. Not that strangers should be supplying them, that's something for parents...again...I'm just sayin'.
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BTW,
I would really like to say that I greatly appreciate this thread not only being left open but for the flow of conversation to just go. I think that's great. There is a time for rigidity in formats and a time for free flow and even the people I disagree with and the turns the thread has taken that I never expected allow me to re-examine my own beliefs and even if I don't change them, at least I have to defend them.
I would really like to say that I greatly appreciate this thread not only being left open but for the flow of conversation to just go. I think that's great. There is a time for rigidity in formats and a time for free flow and even the people I disagree with and the turns the thread has taken that I never expected allow me to re-examine my own beliefs and even if I don't change them, at least I have to defend them.
I'm 41 too and yes I come from the days of kicked out the door at dawn and not allowed inside till the streetlights come on. We weren't allowed to sit inside and play video games and watch TV as kids. Made for a lot of adventures involving tree climbing, rock fights, and homemade explosives we broke a lot of bones and got a lot of stitches but I think we were better off for it.
I want a suppressor too and I wish my AR was full auto. But I also wish my car had nitrous and all sorts of other dangerous stuff. I guess I just trust myself with them and not others Probably not right or fair but there it is.
Going to the Surplus store today to buy more ammo we are going out shooting tommorow my mannequins are all duct taped together again and ready to be riddled with bullets also picking up a case of old bowling pins from the alley in town. Should be a fun day.
I want a suppressor too and I wish my AR was full auto. But I also wish my car had nitrous and all sorts of other dangerous stuff. I guess I just trust myself with them and not others
Probably not right or fair but there it is.Going to the Surplus store today to buy more ammo we are going out shooting tommorow my mannequins are all duct taped together again and ready to be riddled with bullets also picking up a case of old bowling pins from the alley in town. Should be a fun day.
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Not being allowed to go outside was a punishment in the 70s. Now if a parent kicks their ass out of the house, that is a punishment. Very true.
Yeah, I think so too. Got a couple stitches in my head over a dispute over tree fort ownership, the kid with the hatchet won that one.
(And, yeah, he did hit me in the top of the head with a hatchet but didn't split my skull. I'm sure some in here will have that, "Ah-hah!" moment, alas, it's not true.
)Even in the hands of a retard, a fully-automatic M16 is hardly more dangerous than a semi-skilled, determined man with an AR-15, suppressed or not.
I guess I just trust myself with them and not others
You think you are the only one that winces at the gun show, gun shop or the range when they see retards owning firearms?
Just like when I see the lawnmowerboys with their souped up little rice rockets blasting down the road, weaving in and out of traffic with their little angry lawnmowers with big mufflers - dangerous retards. In any sane universe they would not be allowed to drive but, hey, that's what freedom is all about, right?
The truth is, we have to put up with dangerous retards and other malcontents and morons in order for all of us to remain free. That's probably not "right" or "fair," either, but that is also the way it is.
Have fun, be safe.
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From the Hávamál :
Away from his arms / in the open field
A man should fare not a foot
For never he knows / when the need for a spear
Shall arise on the distant road
I don't think anything has changed since then.
Away from his arms / in the open field
A man should fare not a foot
For never he knows / when the need for a spear
Shall arise on the distant road
I don't think anything has changed since then.
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- 24
I've been reading this thread for quite some time and trying to decide whether "akthor" really meant what he's been saying all along or whether he might be yet another of those Leftist/Liberal hatemongers posing as "one of us" for the sake of trying to stir up a little hate and discontent.
The quote below settled it for me.
I'll give akthor this much credit, he means what he says. Fortunately, he doesn't realize just how much his beliefs reveal about what kind of person he is, elsewise, he would never say such things at all.
The man who would keep a Freedom for himself while denying it to others is a tyrant. He is a man who would cheerfully set himself up as the final arbiter in all cases where his pleasure conflicts with another's freedom. In otherwords, he is a would-be slave master.
This attitude is so morally reprehensible it is almost impossible to discuss politely. It is the attitude of the Dictator, the playground or workplace bully, and the pimp. Allowing this sort of man to have any power, strength, or authority is the direct cause of all the ills our civilization now faces.
And sadly, the attitude is common as dirt. The only thing uncommon in this thread is "akthor's" surprising willingness to come on here even as an anonymous user and speak truthfully about what he believes.
Let those who love freedom take note, for here is your truest enemy.
The quote below settled it for me.
I want a suppressor too and I wish my AR was full auto. But I also wish my car had nitrous and all sorts of other dangerous stuff. I guess I just trust myself with them and not others
I'll give akthor this much credit, he means what he says. Fortunately, he doesn't realize just how much his beliefs reveal about what kind of person he is, elsewise, he would never say such things at all.
The man who would keep a Freedom for himself while denying it to others is a tyrant. He is a man who would cheerfully set himself up as the final arbiter in all cases where his pleasure conflicts with another's freedom. In otherwords, he is a would-be slave master.
This attitude is so morally reprehensible it is almost impossible to discuss politely. It is the attitude of the Dictator, the playground or workplace bully, and the pimp. Allowing this sort of man to have any power, strength, or authority is the direct cause of all the ills our civilization now faces.
And sadly, the attitude is common as dirt. The only thing uncommon in this thread is "akthor's" surprising willingness to come on here even as an anonymous user and speak truthfully about what he believes.
Let those who love freedom take note, for here is your truest enemy.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2007
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No doubt.
Here's another oldie but goodie.
Luke 22:36
American King James Version
"Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Pro Assault weapon JC
http://bible.cc/luke/22-36.htm
Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.
Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14). When protecting one's family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qselfdefense.html
Or it could mean that Jesus was using that setting to teach his disciples a future lesson about taking up arms when he said at Matthew 26:52 - "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
Peter took off Malchus' ear which means Malchus was quicker than Peter. I would seriously doubt that Peter was only going for his ear at that point.
For self-defense, I like the reference at Exodus 22:2,3:
"If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him."
I"f the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."
If a bad guy is in your home at night, he is probably up to no good. Whether by bullet or tire iron, his blood is on his hands at that point.
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I've been reading this thread from the beginning, and what (apparently) began with the sad story of a young lady been killed by a deranged psycopath has ended with several topics:survival, firearms ownerships rigths, freedom, civil libertys, 2nd. ammenment, crime statistics, etc.
Well, I'd like to offer a couple of thougths. I do believe that a firearm is (perhaps) one, if not THE best, crime DETERRENT, provided a lot of pre-conditions (training, willingness to use it, legal possession, etc.) are met. I live in Panamá (the republic, Central América, no Panama City, FLa.) and part of my early life I lived under a military dictatorship, so, maybe I have a bit more personal experience about being defenseless, and living in fear of illegal arrest, deportation or worst, and one of the first things that the policias did when they took power was (you guessed), to forbid private ownership of firearms (in some cases they even confiscated machetes, which here, are basically, tools). Many of you may know about Operation Just Cause, and believe me it was very traumatic.
Now we live in "democracy", but the crime rates are going steadily up, with contract killings (drug related), rape, robbery, etc.
I myself caugth a thief in the act of burglarizing my car and (I believe) because I had a gun, was able to hold him, and deliver him to the police, WITHOUT A SHOT BEING FIRED.
In the end, the decision to carry and use a weapon (any weapon) is a personal one; as one of the poster said, there are people who because of many reasons (moral, religious, fear of legal consequences, etc.) are unwilling to use lethal force, even in self defense.
But at least, there should be in place the legal mechanisms to allow those who so choose, to be able to do so. In America there is the 2nd. amm. Here, we don't have that. My prayers to the family of the girl murdered (here in my country, another young lady, distant relative of mine, was raped and murdered, by the security guard of the aparments building where she lived. And I have a girl not yet 17; she is going to college next year. I plan to get her a gun for self defense. She must be 100 pound, soaking wet, so is at a serious disadvantage, strength-wise, with almost anybody. OF course, with a gun permit (as required by our laws, and training, as much as I can get her, specially in when NOT to shoot).
As I said, just a couple of ideas, with no intent to offend o disrespect anybody.
P.S.: Apologies for any misspelling.
Alvaro Candanedo
Well, I'd like to offer a couple of thougths. I do believe that a firearm is (perhaps) one, if not THE best, crime DETERRENT, provided a lot of pre-conditions (training, willingness to use it, legal possession, etc.) are met. I live in Panamá (the republic, Central América, no Panama City, FLa.) and part of my early life I lived under a military dictatorship, so, maybe I have a bit more personal experience about being defenseless, and living in fear of illegal arrest, deportation or worst, and one of the first things that the policias did when they took power was (you guessed), to forbid private ownership of firearms (in some cases they even confiscated machetes, which here, are basically, tools). Many of you may know about Operation Just Cause, and believe me it was very traumatic.
Now we live in "democracy", but the crime rates are going steadily up, with contract killings (drug related), rape, robbery, etc.
I myself caugth a thief in the act of burglarizing my car and (I believe) because I had a gun, was able to hold him, and deliver him to the police, WITHOUT A SHOT BEING FIRED.
In the end, the decision to carry and use a weapon (any weapon) is a personal one; as one of the poster said, there are people who because of many reasons (moral, religious, fear of legal consequences, etc.) are unwilling to use lethal force, even in self defense.
But at least, there should be in place the legal mechanisms to allow those who so choose, to be able to do so. In America there is the 2nd. amm. Here, we don't have that. My prayers to the family of the girl murdered (here in my country, another young lady, distant relative of mine, was raped and murdered, by the security guard of the aparments building where she lived. And I have a girl not yet 17; she is going to college next year. I plan to get her a gun for self defense. She must be 100 pound, soaking wet, so is at a serious disadvantage, strength-wise, with almost anybody. OF course, with a gun permit (as required by our laws, and training, as much as I can get her, specially in when NOT to shoot).
As I said, just a couple of ideas, with no intent to offend o disrespect anybody.
P.S.: Apologies for any misspelling.
Alvaro Candanedo
Last edited:
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You understand the concept of freedom more than many of my countrymen. Be safe.
On the day that this guy kidnapped and later killed an elderly couple in Pisgah Nat. Forest, my now ex-wife and I were within a mile of the spot. Could have easily passed him on the trail and it could have been us instead of them, which is why I ALWAYS carry concealed in the woods. Not for the four legged threats, but for the two legged kind.
Doubt he would have approached us, since his M.O. was to target people who he could intimidate or physicaly overpower, but he would have gotten shot if he'd tried us. Hate to do something like that, but hate to be a victim even more ! ! !
Doubt he would have approached us, since his M.O. was to target people who he could intimidate or physicaly overpower, but he would have gotten shot if he'd tried us. Hate to do something like that, but hate to be a victim even more ! ! !
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I think the real problem here is the false sense of security that martial arts training can give people.
This lady obviously felt secure being out on her own because a) she'd been to martial arts lessons b) she had her dog with her and c) most folks you meet on the trail are really nice.
The bottom line is she was in an ISOLATED area and this is what criminals and ne'er-do-wells love best.
We have similar problems with female tourists in our country who wander off the beaten path in search of a true wilderness experience.
She should not have been alone out there, end of story. Unless her canine companion was a 90 lb malamute or similar trained to attack on command.
This lady obviously felt secure being out on her own because a) she'd been to martial arts lessons b) she had her dog with her and c) most folks you meet on the trail are really nice.
The bottom line is she was in an ISOLATED area and this is what criminals and ne'er-do-wells love best.
We have similar problems with female tourists in our country who wander off the beaten path in search of a true wilderness experience.
She should not have been alone out there, end of story. Unless her canine companion was a 90 lb malamute or similar trained to attack on command.
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Obviously you've never bought one. They are not easily available to Law Abiding Citizens. You have to get "permission" from the ATF. It can take up to 6 months to legally get the paperwork through. Criminals on the other hand, have a much easier time getting them. Seeing as how they don't follow the Laws,,,
Sad story, it's a good idea to carry in the Woods. Just like in the Urban Jungle,,,