"Bad things don't happen on the trail..." a/k/a "If she only had a pistol..."

One of the Canadians here posted something about our Constitution being written when guns were needed for survival. That may well be true but the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting rights, but what it does have everything to do with is INDIVIDUAL or PERSONAL FREEDOM and LIBERTY. Free citizens own firearms subjects do not.

Hey Mike,

No need to get irate. It may be your constitution, but everyone else has the freedom to talk about it. By all means correct them if they make a mistake, but the whole 'don't talk about our stuff' thing doesn't make much sense to me.

As for the excerpt quoted above, I agree completely. It does have everything to do with individual or personal freedom and liberty. Which, when you get down to it, is about having the ability to make choices. As in the choice to either carry a gun in the woods - or not. Both options represent the exercise of free will and personal liberty.

I'm not going to go back over every post to double-check, but I think that just about everyone who has contributed to this thread has come out in support of your right to carry lawfully and responsibly. I sure have. You want to carry on the trails? That's your right, and you'll get no flak from me for exercising it.

Conversely, though, the "personal freedom and liberty means that every responsible person should carry a gun in the woods and those who don't are gutless subjects" (to paraphrase) crowd has, once again, decided that it is not sufficient for everyone else to respect their opinions and rights - no, we have to follow suit, lest we be branded weak and unprepared. This crowd has also tossed out a slew of remarks about liberals, subjects, and the like.

Bottom line: you really can't go on about sacred personal freedoms and, in the same breath, get uptight about those who make different choices - especially if they support your rights.

All the best,

- Mike
 
I think everybody is forgetting surprise element "Ambush" if you lake!
A gun,machine gun, a knife, a big body will not help you, especially if someone wants you dead.

Sad story, very ugly raport too

Um. I guess you missed the part where she was successfully fending him off for a couple minutes?? Sure, if he had ambushed her and knocked her unconscious with one fell blow, that's one thing. But she had ample time to retrieve a weapon, if so equipped. Not to "armchair commando" it up, there is certainly a large chance that she wouldn't have been able to use the weapon, but to say that "A gun,machine gun, a knife, a big body will not help you" is absolutely ignorant, and misleading. Because they help the weaker victim every single day.

That said, I won't say anything she did was wrong, though I'd certainly not want my mother or sisters out there alone, let alone unarmed. She fought valiantly against this scumbag, to the best of her ability
 
Hey Mike,

No need to get irate. It may be your constitution, but everyone else has the freedom to talk about it. By all means correct them if they make a mistake, but the whole 'don't talk about our stuff' thing doesn't make much sense to me.

You're correct. It's not like Americans won't be found online criticizing Canada's various policies and such.

The one thing that does tend to get on my nerves from people in various countries that go to great lengths to tell Americans about how violent we are, what a violent society we have, etc., is some of them go on to tell us the best way to go about defending ourselves! That gets my nose out of joint. By and large, we do know how to defend ourselves in this environment, some of which is very violent and we don't really need the advice of disarmed people to tell us how to survive in such a place.

That isn't even directed at you, I'm just making a point.

As in the choice to either carry a gun in the woods - or not. Both options represent the exercise of free will and personal liberty.

I don't question someone like Rick who chooses to do this, what I question and criticize is when they go to great lengths to deny reality. Where he is at, it might very well be safe to do so. Down here, different thing entirely. AND, the freedom to own guns is not the problem with the predators either, this original story I posted, the guy had a knife and a "baton." No gun involved so this is a prime example of how a tragedy can unfold without a firearm present at all.

I'm not going to go back over every post to double-check, but I think that just about everyone who has contributed to this thread has come out in support of your right to carry lawfully and responsibly. I sure have. You want to carry on the trails? That's your right, and you'll get no flak from me for exercising it.

And I can't really say that I have observed any Canadian in this thread that I would not love to see immigrate here if they wanted that degree of freedom that you cite. I mean, there is the confused young man that wants to join the police, but, I think we can convert him.

Conversely, though, the "personal freedom and liberty means that every responsible person should carry a gun in the woods and those who don't are gutless subjects" (to paraphrase) crowd has, once again, decided that it is not sufficient for everyone else to respect their opinions and rights - no, we have to follow suit, lest we be branded weak and unprepared. This crowd has also tossed out a slew of remarks about liberals, subjects, and the like.

I have tossed out some red meat about liberals even though I have some liberal views! Don't lump me in with the "crowd" you cite. I think it is accurate to call Brits and Canucks "Subjects" because you are! "Gutless?" That's another thing entirely and I have not said it or even hinted at it.

I DO NOT think anyone who is uncomfortable or unwilling to turn on their awareness as close to 100% as they can get it, constantly, while carrying a gun should carry a gun at all, period. I don't think it is for everyone. Most people that carry a pistol will tell you that it is basically a pain in the ass to do so after a while. Some love doing it so it is a pain they don't even notice. Or we could say, "a drag to carry."

I don't feel like wearing a stiff gun belt, proper holster and a double magazine pouch every day, I can tell you that! I can also tell you that if I were allowed to in my State, I would.

Bottom line: you really can't go on about sacred personal freedoms and, in the same breath, get uptight about those who make different choices - especially if they support your rights.

Well, we can get uptight about people who want to eliminate our rights. I think there is a fine line about having so much free speech that you use it to destroy personal liberties just like shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre is not really free speech unless the theatre is, in fact, on fire. :D

However, the rest of your statement I agree with. It is personal choice. I feel the same way about vegetarians, vegans, people that don't like guns, knives, hunting, fishing, trapping or any number of things. It's OK if they don't like it and it's perfectly OK if they don't do it. I would never pass a law banning vegetarianism but would declare PETA a terrorist group because they are affiliated with ALF and "ban" them as the Mafia has been banned through law enforcement actions, The RICO Statute, etc.

I don't pass out pamphlets telling people that meat is incredibly healthy and they should switch to an all-meat diet. I don't push paper about the wonderful warmth of fur coats. I expect the same from my fellow humans.

A person who carries a gun and does not understand that they have to be the most aware individual they have ever been in their life and accept the weighty responsibility of carrying and owning every projectile they might have to launch in a public area...absolutely, positively should NOT carry a weapon. That goes for hunters as well.

If they have any moral questions about taking human life with that weapon, they are a disarm waiting to happen and they should absolutely not carry that weapon. Including edged and impact weapons for self-defense, they become a liability to everyone around them because they lack the determination to use those weapons and they are carrying them as talismans or as threats against potential violence. Weapons are not for threatening, especially in the realm of the Citizen. Police can threaten with them and it's legal for them to do so. A police officer can walk up to your vehicle and place his hand on the butt of his duty weapon because he doesn't know what he is going to encounter when confronting you...a Citizen cannot necessarily conduct themselves in public in the same way with a handgun or it's brandishing.
 
Pot shots?

Nope, just personal opinion based on a few years of experience!

But as long as you seem to be feeling froggy lets get out of this thread and take it to a more appropriate venue.

As always JMHO, YMMV but that's your problem, not mine.

Good rational people CAN agree to disagree.

Regards,
:) ...

GOT BRIDGE?????

you want to talk genocide.....have a look at your treatment of Native Americans, broken treaties, lies, smallpox blankets anyone..........
Real easy to point fingers when you ignore your own history.
Your relatives are tough sob's to have gone through Bataan, My Gramps was wounded twice in Europe.

edit, back to topic

She really should have had a blade with basic anatomy knowledge and a cultivated attitude. Trying to instill this in my new wife.
 
Last edited:
Um. I guess you missed the part where she was successfully fending him off for a couple minutes?? Sure, if he had ambushed her and knocked her unconscious with one fell blow, that's one thing. But she had ample time to retrieve a weapon, if so equipped. Not to "armchair commando" it up, there is certainly a large chance that she wouldn't have been able to use the weapon, but to say that "A gun,machine gun, a knife, a big body will not help you" is absolutely ignorant, and misleading. Because they help the weaker victim every single day.

That said, I won't say anything she did was wrong, though I'd certainly not want my mother or sisters out there alone, let alone unarmed. She fought valiantly against this scumbag, to the best of her ability

Ambush can come with a smile.
 
On a show I think it's called "American Guardian" on the outdoor channel it says:

"There is a violent crime every 22 seconds, every 24 hours a day, in the US. Studies indicate that firearms are used over two million times a year and that the presence of a firearm without a shot being fired prevents crime in many instances."

Neat statistic if true but who knows how valid it is.

You can see the intro to the show here:

http://www.outdoorchannel.com/Shows/AmericanGuardian.aspx

Bit intense for my tastes and I even own an AR-15/57 I am a gun owner and I believe in gun rights and I am an NRA member, but man some of these shows.......... I believe it's major sponsor is the NRA and jeez it's no wonder joe average unarmed citizen is freaked out by the thought of people owning guns.

Last nights show was all about how well supressors (silencers work) and how we should all be allowed to have them and what a boon they would be for hunters, protecting their delicate ears don't you know. Come on I own guns and I don't even by that one :jerkit:

Lessen the flash, lessen the boom, lessen the recoil, lessen peoples caution around firearms make them act like they are using paintball guns or laser tag.

Supressors cool, yes, would I want one, hell yes, do I think I should be able to buy them over the counter without the same restrictions they have for machine guns?????? Hell no!
 
seems to me if she would have just turned around and ran (considering his level of fitness and age) she could have easily got away from this psycho path. Alot of self defence styles preach this- fight to get yourself free then run like hell. But yeah, a 9mm tucked away would have been the ultimate deterent.
 
In my never as humble as it should be opinion, when I am out in the boonies, I am responsible for myself. I am the police, the fire department, the department of health, the emergency medical system, etc. That self-syfficiency is, for me, part of the pleasure of outdoor living. However, with that pleasure comes responsibility; the responsibility to be able to take care of myself and those entrusted to my care. That is the basis for my decisions about what to carry in the woods. Nothing more emotional or extreme than that.
 
Last nights show was all about how well supressors (silencers work) and how we should all be allowed to have them and what a boon they would be for hunters, protecting their delicate ears don't you know. Come on I own guns and I don't even by that one :jerkit:

Lessen the flash, lessen the boom, lessen the recoil, lessen peoples caution around firearms make them act like they are using paintball guns or laser tag.

Supressors cool, yes, would I want one, hell yes, do I think I should be able to buy them over the counter without the same restrictions they have for machine guns?????? Hell no!

It's a funny thing, for years people like Sarah Brady harped that - "we should be more like England, we should have more gun laws like Britain has..." Uh, except when it comes to suppressors apparently. Suppressors, back when firearms were legal in the U.K., were actually promoted as a good idea for gun owners, not upsetting neighbors out in the country, etc.

There is nothing wrong with them, automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and suppressors all ended up on that list in order to deprive Americans of their rights to them. Back in 1934, who but the very, very wealthy could afford a $200.00 Federal Transfer Tax? Nevermind the fact that if you believe in the myth of the very, very wealthy "hitman," ala' Charles Bronson in "The Mechanic," well, they could afford them if they wanted them legally, couldn't they?

If you believe that drug dealers would rush out and buy them, why don't they do it now on the black market?

It's just more fear-mongering and you have bought right into it.
 
And I can't really say that I have observed any Canadian in this thread that I would not love to see immigrate here if they wanted that degree of freedom that you cite. I mean, there is the confused young man that wants to join the police, but, I think we can convert him.

alright i said i wouldnt post again but i want to say that im not against guns or americans being allowed to carry them but i do not see why people try to push these laws on canadians. I also would like people to realize that guns are not the only way to protect yourself and in some cases they are not at all the best solution
 
alright i said i wouldnt post again but i want to say that im not against guns or americans being allowed to carry them but i do not see why people try to push these laws on canadians.

Who is, "trying to push" [US gun laws] "on Canadians?"

I also would like people to realize that guns are not the only way to protect yourself and in some cases they are not at all the best solution

Of course not, but who is saying otherwise?
 
Who is, "trying to push" [US gun laws] "on Canadians?"



Of course not, but who is saying otherwise?

there have been plenty of people who have said canada is a lesser place because of thier gun laws

however if i am wrong im sure none of you will hesitate to correct me
 
Last edited:
well to me if someone argues something till they are blue in the face because you have said otherwise it generally means they are trying to convince you to agree with them

I understand, friend, but that is not the case. We are not trying to convince anyone of anything; we are expressing our deeply-held beliefs, and, when people do that, they often get passionate. No offence intended. Canada is a proud and sovereign nation, and its people certainly have the right to the government and laws they deem best. No argument.

You obviously love your country, which is wonderful. We love our country, and our heritage of radical liberty that has amazed the world since the late eighteenth century. However, there are cultural differences between Canada and the US. In the US, we are PASSIONATE about our liberty. We value individual freedom more than life, and revere our parents and grandparents who sacrificed so much, even their lives, to preserve that liberty for us. We feel a deep sense of obligation to jealously guard what they suffered and bled to protect on our behalf.

So, yes, we are passionate, but there is no disrespect intended in that passion, and we also value our two centuries of friendship with our proud Canadian neighbors. Fiends can disagree, and even argue, but still be friends.
 
Last edited:
As long as at least a third of this thread is off topic to some extent, I'll make this comment, as it seems to be applicable, IMO.

It seems to be perfectly acceptable in todays liberal PC dominated culture, for anyone, from any where, to make any stated or implied criticism of any part of U.S culture or Government an object of protected speech.

Of course the reverse (Such as stating the fact that a number of countries reject the whole concept of self-defense as taboo) is 'country bashing' and not to be tolerated.

Mr. Rearics Original Post was a valid and obviously thought provoking one.

Too bad we didn't stay with discussing it.

All that said, I still find it odd that anyone on a 'survival' forum would champion a persons failure or refusal to properly prepare, when the opportunity exists to BE properly prepared.

JMHO, YMMV

Regards,
:)
 
We love our country, and our heritage of radical liberty that has amazed the world since the late eighteenth century. However, there are cultural differences between Canada and the US. In the US, we are PASSIONATE about our liberty.

You guys are passionate about certain aspects of your liberties. No doubt about that. Gun rights aside, though, you're pretty much on par with everyone else. And, as regards gun rights, you (that's the general 'you') often make the mistake of thinking that your 2nd Amendment is something that other countries are lacking, as opposed to something we just don't have. It's a more-better vs. different thing.

All the best,

- Mike
 
You guys are passionate about certain aspects of your liberties. No doubt about that. Gun rights aside, though, you're pretty much on par with everyone else. And, as regards gun rights, you (that's the general 'you') often make the mistake of thinking that your 2nd Amendment is something that other countries are lacking, as opposed to something we just don't have. It's a more-better vs. different thing.

All the best,

- Mike

Insightful post, Mike. I agree, that is what makes us different, though I do not agree that our attitude is a "mistake." That is just a point on which we will always see things differently.

Best wishes to you as well,

David
 
Naw if I had bought into it I don't think I would own guns let alone a gun that uses 50rd mags and can only be called an assault weapon.

But guns are dangerous and I think the noise and the recoil remind people of that.

Tough crap if you don't believe it it's what I believe. And you can't change my mind on it.

And don't go on quoting gun laws and politicians names at me. I am an NRA member, a gun toter and I said I would like a silencer (oops sorry supressor is the NRA politically correct way to say it)

But I like the idea that when a gun goes bang somewhere it shouldn't EVERYONE knows.

Make silencers legal and easy to get for everyone and the cost for them drops wayyyyy down and before you know it every two bit thug with a gun would have them. Now not only is it a $200 tax stamp but they also cost as much or more than an actual gun. I like it that way and it should stay that way.

Just like machine guns, SBR's and sawed off shotguns.

But hey I also think we shouldn't be allowed to have rocket launchers and hand grenades too.

I also believe in background checks and that felons and people with protection orders or domestic violence or mental illness histories shouldn't be allowed to have guns. I believe guns should be registered to a specific owner and that the person to person tranfer of guns without having to go thru the same process as someone buying a gun thru an FFL dealer should be illegal.

But hey I must just be crazy or I must be a liberal pansy :rolleyes:

[/I]
It's a funny thing, for years people like Sarah Brady harped that - "we should be more like England, we should have more gun laws like Britain has..." Uh, except when it comes to suppressors apparently. Suppressors, back when firearms were legal in the U.K., were actually promoted as a good idea for gun owners, not upsetting neighbors out in the country, etc.

There is nothing wrong with them, automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and suppressors all ended up on that list in order to deprive Americans of their rights to them. Back in 1934, who but the very, very wealthy could afford a $200.00 Federal Transfer Tax? Nevermind the fact that if you believe in the myth of the very, very wealthy "hitman," ala' Charles Bronson in "The Mechanic," well, they could afford them if they wanted them legally, couldn't they?

If you believe that drug dealers would rush out and buy them, why don't they do it now on the black market?

It's just more fear-mongering and you have bought right into it.
 
Back
Top