BADER III electrical problem

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ldoyle

Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
59
I have a Bader III , 1 1/2 HP , VS knife grinder that I have had about 17 years . Because of some family health issues I have not been able to make a knife for over a year . I was in my shop yesterday and had to use it for something else and it would not run at more than about half speed , but variable speed worked below that half speed mark . Would anyone have any thoughts as to why it will not run above half speed? Could it be the brushes , VS controller , or anything else ? I sure want my grinder back to working normal .Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this ? Thanks . Larry
 
The capacitors run down and require reconditioning if not powered on for a while.

Look up info on that.

Basically plugged in, but not running for a day or two.
 
Autogateman , no I have not checked input voltage at the VS switch . I don`t know how so I will try to get a electrician to check for me .

12345678910 , The grinder is never unplugged , and I don`t see a capacitor ( at least not external ) . Could there be one internally ? And since it is never unplugged could it still run down because of it sitting idle ?

Thank you both for your replys
 
If you have a DC motor the armature can be corroded. The brush housings can also get corrosion not allowing the brushes to make good contact. The springs could also be weak.
Pull your brushes out and give everything a look over. I have to do this occasionally on my portaband when it starts running slow. You can get electrical contact cleaner to clean the armature.
 
ldoyle said:
I have a Bader III , 1 1/2 HP , VS knife grinder that I have had about 17 years . Because of some family health issues I have not been able to make a knife for over a year . I was in my shop yesterday and had to use it for something else and it would not run at more than about half speed , but variable speed worked below that half speed mark . Would anyone have any thoughts as to why it will not run above half speed? Could it be the brushes , VS controller , or anything else ? I sure want my grinder back to working normal .Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on this ? Thanks . Larry
Click to expand...

What motor and drive do you have? If it's a variable speed ac motor, it won't have brushes. It COULD very well be the capacitors as Count stated. Hopefully you haven't already damaged the caps (which are internal to the VFD btw) by trying to run it already.

You'll want to get on the Googler and look up "VFD capacitor reforming". Depending on what drive you have, there may be a documented procedure for your make/model. Usually it involves a variac, and even a transformer, if I recall, or some kind of rectifier/resistor circuit at the input. The motor may or may not need to be disconnected. If you give us a make and model of your drive, we may be able to find some better info on reforming the caps.
 
knife to a gun fight ,
I`m not sure of what you are asking . I thought it was a Bader motor but that is who made the grinder I guess . There is nothing on the motor with a name but the VS controller is a Baldor so I would say it is a Baldor motor . Also the controller says it is a DC Drive . It does have brushes .
 
I can almost guarantee your brushes are corroded in their housings. Unplug the machine. Pull the brushes out and try to clean everything up. You might be able to use a q-tip and rubbing alcohol.
 
ldoyle said:
knife to a gun fight ,
I`m not sure of what you are asking . I thought it was a Bader motor but that is who made the grinder I guess . There is nothing on the motor with a name but the VS controller is a Baldor so I would say it is a Baldor motor . Also the controller says it is a DC Drive . It does have brushes .
Click to expand...

Bader made the grinder, correct, and the motor IS likely a Baldor. Now days, most grinder manufacturers (including Bader, if I'm not mistaken) use AC drives (which don't use brushed motors), but 17 years ago, DC drives were probably a little bit more accessible. As Mike-E is saying, it's possible that your brushes and/or the motor's commutator (what the ends of the brushes contact inside the motor) have some corrosion on them. This could certainly affect motor function. It's also possible, however, that your capacitors sat idle too long, and may need reformed.

I'd try pulling and inspecting the brushes first. If you could provide pictures, we can possibly confirm one way or the other if the brushes are you problem, or it'll likely be obvious to you right away. There should be nameplates or stickers on either the motor or the VFD, with a model # or a serial number. Bader may still be able to provide you with some replacement brushes if need be (or at least point you in the direction of where to get some).
 
Thanks guys. When I get home tomorrow or Monday I will try to get some pictures. I did send Bader several emails over the last week and a half but haven't received any replys. Maybe he's on vacation.
 
ldoyle said:
Thanks guys. When I get home tomorrow or Monday I will try to get some pictures. I did send Bader several emails over the last week and a half but haven't received any replys. Maybe he's on vacation.
Click to expand...
Emails to companies often go unanswered.

A call is always a faster way to connect
 
I have two Bader grinders with DC drives. Thousands of hours on these & never had any problem with the controllers, but did have one issue with brushes that lead to a bad armature. I just bought another motor/controller off ebay for about the same as it would cost to repair. Yes I found a deal. I then sold the bad unit for $200.
 
I had a DC Bader B-III with 1.5HP motor. Only issue was blowing one of the fuses repeatedly when hogging after maybe 500-1000 hours run time. I put in new brushes.
 
I've had the same grinder for years idoyle. I've never had it not come up to speed but once in a while at slow speeds it will hesitate or jog irratically.
I pull the brushes and VERY lightly touch them to a disc sander, their only graphite so be careful.
she runs like brand new after that. I do it once, sometimes twice a year.
 
bladegrinder said:
I've had the same grinder for years idoyle. I've never had it not come up to speed but once in a while at slow speeds it will hesitate or jog irratically.
I pull the brushes and VERY lightly touch them to a disc sander, their only graphite so be careful.
she runs like brand new after that. I do it once, sometimes twice a year.
Click to expand...
Bladegrinder , I assume you just flatten the end of the brush ?
 
ldoyle said:
Bladegrinder , I assume you just flatten the end of the brush ?
Click to expand...
You can do that, or even just swiping some 600 grit sand paper across the ends a few times should do the trick. Depending on how worn/short they are, you may even want to just replace them. I'd also stretch the springs slightly, as they've probably taken a set over the years. This will give you a little more positive contact to the comm.
 
ldoyle said:
Bladegrinder , I assume you just flatten the end of the brush ?
Click to expand...
Yes, I flatten it. keep it on a 90 degree to the sides and just touch it to the disc.
I've never messed with the springs, they seem to stay ok.
after I do this the motor runs like new.
 
I did take a quick picture this morning before I had to leave .https://imgur.com/a/gYstWyv
Im not sure if it is good enough to see but the brush itself is smooth on half the surface and rough on the other half of surface , and the brass end looks like it has some corrosion on it . Just looked at the one brush . Tomorrow I will pull them both out and clean up . They don`t appear to be too worn down .
 
ldoyle said:
I did take a quick picture this morning before I had to leave .https://imgur.com/a/gYstWyv
Im not sure if it is good enough to see but the brush itself is smooth on half the surface and rough on the other half of surface , and the brass end looks like it has some corrosion on it . Just looked at the one brush . Tomorrow I will pull them both out and clean up . They don`t appear to be too worn down .
Click to expand...
That brush really doesn't look bad at all. Could be some corrosion on the comm? I'm still leaning towards a possible cap issue.
 
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