Balisong Butterfly knife confiscated... Toilsome troubles w/ Seattle Police

[MORIMOTOM]

If I had genuinely caused the officers to fear for their safety, they should have acted like it. They didn't ever actually search the car; we were told to keep our hands visible (which we did), but we were never even asked to get out.

The officers didn't even search me!

perhaps, but that doesn't really change anything. you also were not transported and booked, which would have been unpleasant.

were you given a citation at the scene, or were you notified by the da about the hearing?

the illegal item was probable cause to search everyone and probably the entire car (prima facie). but that doesn't mean they have to do so. i suppose they could have held you at gunpoint, and initiated a high risk stop, but that also would change nothing regarding the facts you have presented.

if you are charged with the first section you quoted, their fear for safety is probably also irrelevant. the charge is for simple possession, not brandishing.

 

[AbnInfantry]

AbnInfantry: I realize that drinking beer with dinner and transporting liquor is frowned upon, but the officers didn't seem to care. There was nothing illegal about it.

I never suggested there was anything "illegal" about you and your friends having a couple beers with dinner or transporting liquor in your vehicle. This is what I wrote: “To many people, your decision to drink any quantity of alcohol before driving, and then to possess/display a "dangerous knife" while possibly under the influence of alcohol, is grounds to convict you of something whether you were "legally sober" or not.” If your case goes to trial, the prosecutor is likely to get the fact you'd consumed alcohol brought to the attention of the judge and jurors. Something doesn't have to be illegal to weigh against a defendant in jurors' minds when they're deliberating over their verdict. Some jurors who might be uncertain how to vote could let the fact you possessed/displayed a "dangerous knife" while in a motor vehicle after drinking alcohol influence them into voting for a guilty verdict.

All I was trying to do was caution you what might happen and how volunteering information you think is innocuous can hurt you later in court. I've lost count of how many times I've seen this happen to defendants.

AbnInfantry, enough is enough.

What a coincidence. "Enough is enough" were the exact words on the LP bumper sticker two SFPD officers publicly condemned me for having on my truck in 1994.

And stop insulting the people you address here.

I've repeatedly been insulted by BF members in the Knife Laws forum, accused of saying things I never wrote (or ever thought), and baselessly, falsely accused of lying about my past employment. You never evinced any problem with that. Not, of course, that I expected you would.

If you expect me not to respond to members who attack me, especially those who post lies about me, then please be advised that's not going to happen. I'm not going to be a passive Internet punching bag for anyone.

if you are charged with the first section you quoted, their fear for safety is probably also irrelevant. the charge is for simple possession, not brandishing.

According to his original post, he "assumed" he would be charged under SMC 12A.14.080. He was actually charged with violating SMC 12A.14.075.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

According to his original post, he "assumed" he would be charged under SMC 12A.14.080. He was actually charged with violating SMC 12A.14.075.

in that case, it is possible they charged him with that section in order to allow him to plea to a lesser possession charge.

they are both misdemeanors (or the equivalent), but i would suppose the brandishing section carries a harsher punishment.


and there may indeed have been illegal behavior if they consumed alcohol then drove. impairment is not solely determined by bac.

and what makes a person "legally sober"? a zero bac would be the only way to be legally sober. if the driver had any alcohol on board his system, he was not at a zero bac. many states have adopted the .08 as the legal limit. this does not mean that under a .08 is legal, it means that at .08 or higher it is presumed the driver is impaired. one's bac can be under .08, yet still be legally impaired.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Originally Posted by Esav Benyamin
AbnInfantry, enough is enough.

What a coincidence. "Enough is enough" were the exact words on the LP bumper sticker two SFPD officers publicly condemned me for having on my truck in 1994.

Originally Posted by Esav Benyamin
And stop insulting the people you address here.

I've repeatedly been insulted by BF members in the Knife Laws forum, accused of saying things I never wrote (or ever thought), and baselessly, falsely accused of lying about my past employment. You never evinced any problem with that. Not, of course, that I expected you would.

If you expect me not to respond to members who attack me, especially those who post lies about me, then please be advised that's not going to happen. I'm not going to be a passive Internet punching bag for anyone.

What a coincidence? Irrelevant.

You've repeatedly been insulted? Report it.

I am not here to live up to your expectations:
I don't read every post in every thread every day.

You may certainly respond to members who address you, but if you address them improperly, that's going to be your problem.

Understand this: I am not discussing this with you. I am telling you not to disrupt threads by introducing excessive and irrelevant material.

 

[Swedge]

However, I wanted to check in the Blade Forums to see who all thinks I'm idiotic and who can give me advice.

I understand the desire to ask around to get a reality check, but to rely on advice in defending against a criminal charge based on posts made on an internet forum by people whose qualifications and identity are unknown to you could expose you to a charge of being, well, pick a word from the quote above (hint: it begins with "i" and ends with "c").

It's not unheard of for prosecutors to use information posted by a defendant against the defendant at his trial or sentencing hearing. Discussing your case here is really not helpful to you.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Swedge is right. This is also the reason the first thing you do is find a lawyer of your own to discuss what happened and what you do next -- and what you don't do.

Had you left the scene after the encounter with the police and called on a lawyer ASAP, we here really should not have heard about it until the court had finished with it.

 

[tom19176]

Thank you Esav.....

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

Swedge, Esav Benyamin, tom19176, I realize someone could use online info against me, but we are not really discussing anything they don't already know. I am hoping to find a user in these forums who has experience dealing with bogus charges like the one I'm considering fighting.

Lawyers are great, but probably somewhat biased when it comes to weather or not I should take it to court. I still have no idea what this would cost. Even if I were able to have the case dismissed, it could cost me a big chunk of change... and then what?? Will they prosecution just modify their gameplan and charge me with the possession of a "gravity knife"?

 

[glistam]

Swedge, Esav Benyamin, tom19176, I realize someone could use online info against me, but we are not really discussing anything they don't already know. I am hoping to find a user in these forums who has experience dealing with bogus charges like the one I'm considering fighting.

Lawyers are great, but probably somewhat biased when it comes to weather or not I should take it to court. I still have no idea what this would cost. Even if I were able to have the case dismissed, it could cost me a big chunk of change... and then what?? Will they prosecution just modify their gameplan and charge me with the possession of a "gravity knife"?

I don't think you're understanding what good private lawyers do. Criminal defense is not like lawsuits where their trying to get the biggest settlement. Defense lawyers want to WIN (read: get charges on you dismissed). Defense attorney's can often intimidate the prosecution before trial into giving up, by using motions and generally making life hell for them.

I did see this in a recent self-defense case where a woman was arrested for brandishing a firearm at a man who'd cornered her in an alley and was trying to run her over with his car. She was terrified at the thought of her upcoming trial and saying a lot of the things you were saying right here, until her first pre-trial hearing, when the prosecution said they have decided they will not pursue the charges. Her lawyer had already shown the prosecution they had no chance of getting any charge to stick.

I cannot emphasize enough the benefits of good representation. I would sell my car if it meant even a chance at getting the charges dropped or found innocent. At least seek out a free consultation. What's wrong with free?

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Swedge, Esav Benyamin, tom19176, I realize someone could use online info against me, but we are not really discussing anything they don't already know. I am hoping to find a user in these forums who has experience dealing with bogus charges like the one I'm considering fighting.

Lawyers are great, but probably somewhat biased when it comes to weather or not I should take it to court. I still have no idea what this would cost. Even if I were able to have the case dismissed, it could cost me a big chunk of change... and then what?? Will they prosecution just modify their gameplan and charge me with the possession of a "gravity knife"?

your case will be assigned to a public defender, if it hasn't already. the pd is not the ideal choice to mount a defense, but it is a good place to start.

talking with the pd or the pd's office may give you a good idea of how similar cases have been resolved.

the brandishing charge may be bogus, but a possession charge wouldn't be bogus. correct?

keep in mind we dont know anything about you other than what you have posted.

none of us was there with you when the incident took place, and it would be a mistake on our part to assume what you have posted is exactly what happened. stories of personal experience are biased in nature, as this is your perception of the sequence of events. without any chance to discuss it with each other, the experiences of your friends may have been different. possibly very much so.

this in no way makes you a liar, but consider there are at least two sides to every story. im not assuming you are intentionally ommitting key facts, but i also won't assume the police report (as you have relayed it) is intentionally false.

so where does that leave you now? well, probably only the da(ca)/pd offices will have all the available information currently. you need to start by calling the pd's office to see if your case has been assigned, and if so, make an appointment to go in and talk to the handling attorney.

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

My other two roommates (two front seats) agree with my recollection of the incident.

Yes, the brandishing/"intimidation" charge is definitely bogus, but if they bring a possession charge on me later, it would be tough to fight. I am technically innocent of that charge too because I wasn't responsible for tossing it in the car. There is video evidence of myself explaining to the officer that I didn't know what it was doing in the car (NOT knowingly) . The officer asked me to push it over with my foot, but after some trying, I explained to them that I didn't know where it was, couldn't see it, and couldn't reach it; there were a lot of groceries/clutter on the floor. She had to reach in and grab it herself.

I was assigned a Public Defender 2 weeks ago, but the appointments are automatically assigned when you arrive to the Pretrial Screening. My appointment was scheduled literally one day before the Pretrial Hearing (total bullcrap, I know).

 

[MORIMOTOM]

samuel, i sent you an email.

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

samuel, i sent you an email.

Hey, MORIMOTOM, I have not received any emails from you... I looked in the Spam, trash, etc.
My Gmail address is the same as my screen name here.

 

[thedetro125]

This is all a bunch of bullshit. You can't let them get you for something like this, although with judges nowadays you can never tell. With the lies of two teenagers that were my "friends," they managed to get me for theft of school property (dvd burners which I DID take, but nobody saw me). The first witness said he saw me coming out of a computer lab (one that there were no dvd burners missing from), and the other said I often talked about stealing things. It was kind of outrageous, but I guess I made the decision when I did it. So this proves that the judges can convict you for a stupid thing like this, depending on where you are. I live in arlington virginia USA. I would say go head and do the two days of community service, but 48 hours is a LOT and very boring. Also, I wouldn't just accept them being able to take the balisong from me because one of the police officers probably recognized it and wants it for himself. You have two witnesses in the car, plus yourself. They don't have a very strong case and they KNOW that, otherwise they wouldn't offer a bargain like what they did. You do need a lawyer, as fast as you can get a good one. Good luck, don't be nervous in court, I have been there several times and am no longer. Just make sure you dress up fully with a belt and tie and all that.

~Matt

 

[MORIMOTOM]

pay no attention to the above post, which is pretty much a waste of forum space.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Gee, Mark, I thought it was a pretty good comedy routine myself.

With the lies of two teenagers that were my "friends," they managed to get me for theft of school property (dvd burners which I DID take, but nobody saw me). The first witness said he saw me coming out of a computer lab (one that there were no dvd burners missing from), and the other said I often talked about stealing things. It was kind of outrageous, but I guess I made the decision when I did it. So this proves that the judges can convict you for a stupid thing like this, depending on where you are.

... especially when you're guilty.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Gee, Mark, I thought it was a pretty good comedy routine myself.



... especially when you're guilty.

true, aside from the comedy routine, it is a waste of space.

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

haha lol
ditto

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

PS.
UPDATE
I finally talked with my Public Defender.
Apparently, the offer I am tempted with (2 days comm. service/no knife/no weapons) is a Dispositional Continuance, i think. It is basically a postponement of the trial for 6 months. If I fulfill my side of the deal, then it only shows up on my criminal record as a Dismissal.

Since she's sure this IS all bullshit, she thinks we might be able to have the Intimidation charge dismissed. Though, she's also sure the prosecution will claim the officers were "in fear for their safety".

She also told me that their delay in charging me is fishy. Also, their SUPER easy Disposition suggests something fishy. Apparently, there is no Audio/Video evidence. (???) Mustav dissappeared ?

 

[glistam]

Even with the falsified reports, it still seems like there is no real evidence of intimidation. So far I have not heard anything that is evidence of intent on your part to cause alarm in other persons.