Balisong Butterfly knife confiscated... Toilsome troubles w/ Seattle Police

[Swedge]

If I fulfill my side of the deal, then it only shows up on my criminal record as a Dismissal.

As far as your record is concerned, I think a dismissal looks better on your record than an acquittal. An acquittal is not the same thing as being found innocent; it is more akin to "not proven," but it still means that the prosecution wanted to try the case. A dismissal implies that there were insufficient grounds to prosecute.

The record might in fact reflect a "Dispositional Continuance." For example, in CA, if you go to traffic school, the ticket is dismissed upon satisfactory completion of traffic school. But I have been told that your driving record still reflects the ticket and the fact that you went to traffic school. So insurance companies can see that you got a ticket even though it was dismissed. OTOH, although the official record might show the charge and the dismissal based on "Dispositional Continuance," that might not be available to employers and other members of the public.

Ask your PD about all that. (Hint: we are not your PD.)

Once you have the charge dismissed, with the passage of time, you may be able to get the record of the charge expunged. Ask your PD about that too.

 

[thedetro125]

pay no attention to the above post, which is pretty much a waste of forum space.

If you pay close attention to what I said you will find two things. One is that they can get you for things with little or no evidence. Two is sometimes the officers do not understand the laws themselves, as some work state to state. It is not a waste of forum space, and please do not say so in the future.

~Matt

 

[folderfan2093]

your case will be assigned to a public defender, if it hasn't already. the pd is not the ideal choice to mount a defense, but it is a good place to start.

talking with the pd or the pd's office may give you a good idea of how similar cases have been resolved.

the brandishing charge may be bogus, but a possession charge wouldn't be bogus. correct?

keep in mind we dont know anything about you other than what you have posted.

none of us was there with you when the incident took place, and it would be a mistake on our part to assume what you have posted is exactly what happened. stories of personal experience are biased in nature, as this is your perception of the sequence of events. without any chance to discuss it with each other, the experiences of your friends may have been different. possibly very much so.

this in no way makes you a liar, but consider there are at least two sides to every story. im not assuming you are intentionally ommitting key facts, but i also won't assume the police report (as you have relayed it) is intentionally false.

so where does that leave you now? well, probably only the da(ca)/pd offices will have all the available information currently. you need to start by calling the pd's office to see if your case has been assigned, and if so, make an appointment to go in and talk to the handling attorney.

it was my understanding that public defenders are only for people who can't afford their own lawyer. my cousin was arrested a while ago (complicated but harmless offense) anyway he was told he couldn't have a public defender because he made enough money to pay for his own lawyer.


it's probably for the best anyway though. public defenders lay down more than 5 dollar whores

 

[Esav Benyamin]

it was my understanding that public defenders are only for people who can't afford their own lawyer. [ ... ]

it's probably for the best anyway though. public defenders lay down more than 5 dollar whores

Cheap shot, unworthy of this serious discussion.

Are public defenders failed lawyers who can't make it on their own? Or are they dedicated, successful attorneys giving something back to the system? Or are they new lawyers learning their way around a courtroom?

My cousin began by working for the New York District Attorney's office and then worked as a public defender. Only after that did she join a law firm where she has had a very successful career.

Whatever the criteria, when someone needs a lawyer, and one of these people steps in to help, you can mock free advice as being worth the price, or you can acknowledge that our society at least wants to provide an attempt at equal justice under the law.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

If you pay close attention to what I said you will find two things. One is that they can get you for things with little or no evidence. Two is sometimes the officers do not understand the laws themselves, as some work state to state. It is not a waste of forum space, and please do not say so in the future.

~Matt

are you referring to the post where you accused police officers (without actually having been there) of theft or where you are complaining of being convicted of a crime that you freely admit to having committed?

i can read your post a hundred times and still not find the those "two things".

its still a waste of space.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

it was my understanding that public defenders are only for people who can't afford their own lawyer. my cousin was arrested a while ago (complicated but harmless offense) anyway he was told he couldn't have a public defender because he made enough money to pay for his own lawyer.


it's probably for the best anyway though. public defenders lay down more than 5 dollar whores

public defenders provide an invaluable service to the community.

w/o them, who would represent those who cannot afford private counsel? there are only so many pro bono attorneys available.

as in any profession, there are very good pd's, average pd's, and not so good pd's. they all carry a very heavy caseload, and the work is often times thankless.

 

[AbnInfantry]

If you pay close attention to what I said

I "paid close attention" to what you wrote. You're a self-professed thief, an advocate of the Bart Simpson defense, and are unskilled in selecting "friends." I paid "close attention" when another BF member/ex-NY LEO recently bragged about giving PBA cards to friends so they'd have immunity from traffic violations (and an arrest for breaking an anti-knife statute). If there's a morally valid reason why holders of PBA cards are above the law in NYC it eludes my comprehension (and that of Monroe Freedman, professor of legal ethics at Hofstra University, who described PBA cards as "a serious abuse of official power").

it was my understanding that public defenders are only for people who can't afford their own lawyer. my cousin was arrested a while ago (complicated but harmless offense) anyway he was told he couldn't have a public defender because he made enough money to pay for his own lawyer.

That's an oversimplification. Rules for public defenders and other court-appointed attorneys vary from the federal system to individual states. Defendants are often assigned a court-appointed lawyer to represent them at arraignment before they have the time or ability to retain private counsel. As a general rule, defendants using court-appointed attorneys have to submit a financial disclosure report revealing their income and net worth. Even when people are allowed to have a public defender, in some jurisdictions they have to sign a form pledging full or partial financial reimbursement to the government for their defense. Contrary to what's often shown on television, PDs and other court-appointed attorneys are not always "free."

public defenders lay down more than 5 dollar whores

While I defer to your expertise on the subject of "5 dollar whores," your blanket condemnation of public defenders is unfair. Public defenders are usually assigned caseloads too heavy for them to provide truly adequate representation despite how well-intentioned they may be. The budgets legislators accord public defenders are meager compared to the resources available to prosecutors.

There are plenty of public defenders who I wouldn't allow to represent me on a jaywalking citation. I could make the same statement regarding certain justices on the U.S. Supreme Court. There are public defenders, however, who make a diligent effort to provide competent representation for their clients, even under adverse circumstances.

Finally, sometimes "making a deal" is in their clients' best interests. The op in this thread might be better off with a public defender who could get the charge dismissed or resolved with two days' community service and no conviction than an expensive private attorney with a financial interest in taking the case to trial when he or she might not be able to prevail.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

PS.
UPDATE
I finally talked with my Public Defender.
Apparently, the offer I am tempted with (2 days comm. service/no knife/no weapons) is a Dispositional Continuance, i think. It is basically a postponement of the trial for 6 months. If I fulfill my side of the deal, then it only shows up on my criminal record as a Dismissal.

Since she's sure this IS all bullshit, she thinks we might be able to have the Intimidation charge dismissed. Though, she's also sure the prosecution will claim the officers were "in fear for their safety".

She also told me that their delay in charging me is fishy. Also, their SUPER easy Disposition suggests something fishy. Apparently, there is no Audio/Video evidence. (???) Mustav dissappeared ?

there may be legitimate reasons for the circumstances.

a really weak case often results in a da reject (in the interest of justice).

the community service offer may be due to your lack of a prior criminal record combined with a fairly minor offense.

the delayed adjudication is similar to having a traffic ticket dismissed after completing traffic school. though in traffic offenses it is often a requirement that the deft pleads guilty.

re: audio/video, i cant say, we don't use that equipment in our vehicles.

what indication was there for its existence? you had mentioned that previously.


btw, did you ever get my email? sometimes i have problems sending to gmail addresses.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

While I defer to your expertise on the subject of "5 dollar whores," your blanket condemnation of public defenders is unfair. Public defenders are usually assigned caseloads too heavy for them to provide truly adequate representation despite how well-intentioned they may be. The budgets legislators accord public defenders are meager compared to the resources available to prosecutors.

There are plenty of public defenders who I wouldn't allow to represent me on a jaywalking citation. I could make the same statement regarding certain justices on the U.S. Supreme Court. There are public defenders, however, who make a diligent effort to provide competent representation for their clients, even under adverse circumstances.

Finally, sometimes "making a deal" is in their clients' best interests. The op in this thread might be better off with a public defender who could get the charge dismissed or resolved with two days' community service and no conviction than an expensive private attorney with a financial interest in taking the case to trial when he or she might not be able to prevail.

well said, sir.

it should also be noted that the pd and da offices work together pretty closely.

the pd may be able to expidite the case partially because they have a good working relationship with the handling da.

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

what indication was there for its existence? you had mentioned that previously.


btw, did you ever get my email? sometimes i have problems sending to gmail addresses.

The PD also asked me how I knew there was AUDIO/VIDEO.
I am assuming there WAS audio/video because, at the traffic stop, one of the officers said something along the lines of: "for your information, everything here is being audio/video recorded and can be used in court".
My PD thinks it was lost or something because she has no indication of it's existence. I suppose we'll find out @ the Pretrial.

Also, thanks for the email. I appreciate the different point of view.
So, if I don't accept their Dispositional Continuance , I should expect to be more severely screwed???

I've consulted privately, and with the PD, but neither seemed to suggest that I risk much more punishment if we try getting this bullcrap intimidation charge dismissed. She even thinks a better deal could be worked out... or one that includes the Balisong....
I am worried about putting so much faith in her. She is scarily on the optimistic side.

Anyone know what the typical court fees can be???

 

[MORIMOTOM]

The PD also asked me how I knew there was AUDIO/VIDEO.
I am assuming there WAS audio/video because, at the traffic stop, one of the officers said something along the lines of: "for your information, everything here is being audio/video recorded and can be used in court".
My PD thinks it was lost or something because she has no indication of it's existence. I suppose we'll find out @ the Pretrial.

sounds like a ruse to me. you may want to find out if their vehicles even have such equipment.

Also, thanks for the email. I appreciate the different point of view.
So, if I don't accept their Dispositional Continuance , I should expect to be more severely screwed???

I've consulted privately, and with the PD, but neither seemed to suggest that I risk much more punishment if we try getting this bullcrap intimidation charge dismissed. She even thinks a better deal could be worked out... or one that includes the Balisong....
I am worried about putting so much faith in her. She is scarily on the optimistic side.

Anyone know what the typical court fees can be???

it would be very irresponsible of me to suggest a particular course of action for you.

however, in my experience, when a deft turns down a plea deal, and is found guilty, the resulting sentence is typically harsher than the original offer. it is counter productive from their point of view to go through the trial process then ask for the same sentencing they offered initially.

if your lawyer thinks she can get a better plea deal with a counter offer, it is worth exploring.

the community service doesn't sound bad. but then again, i wont be serving it. you need to weigh the cost/benefit of going through the whole process.

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

Yeah, the course of action, for me, is definitely something I will have to decide on the spot, @ the pretrial.

Hopefully, I won't need to decide immediately when my name is called. I just need to make sure the PD doesn't decide anything hastily without explaining it to me a bajillion times/ways.

The last thing I need is for her to screw around with this "minor charge" and dish me up a sketchy wrap sheet.

 

[TOM1960]

As far as your record is concerned, I think a dismissal looks better on your record than an acquittal. An acquittal is not the same thing as being found innocent; it is more akin to "not proven," but it still means that the prosecution wanted to try the case. A dismissal implies that there were insufficient grounds to prosecute.

The record might in fact reflect a "Dispositional Continuance." For example, in CA, if you go to traffic school, the ticket is dismissed upon satisfactory completion of traffic school. But I have been told that your driving record still reflects the ticket and the fact that you went to traffic school. So insurance companies can see that you got a ticket even though it was dismissed. OTOH, although the official record might show the charge and the dismissal based on "Dispositional Continuance," that might not be available to employers and other members of the public.

Ask your PD about all that. (Hint: we are not your PD.)

Once you have the charge dismissed, with the passage of time, you may be able to get the record of the charge expunged. Ask your PD about that too.

How it appears on the record doesn't matter if acquittal or dismissal. The arrest still stays on the books. Here in Massachusetts, every court appearance appears on your CORI (Criminal Offender Record Information) criminal record, even if you were falsely arrested for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If I was riding in that car and did not know about the knife and was arrested falsely just for being a passenger, I would still face a court appearance. Sure, the judge would dismiss the case against me quickly and tell me that I am free to leave, but I would still have the arrest record and court appearance record. As long as it is not a conviction, who cares? The only problem would be applying for or renewing a security clearance. You would then have to provide a detailed response to the federal/state investigators who are processing your application. For most people, unless it is not a conviction, there would be no effect on their employment or lifestyle.

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

Well, the thing is, I wasn't actually arrested for it... so that's nice.

I realize that the court appearance will always show up, especially for security clearance. However, that doesn't really worry me so much... as long as it reads as a dismissal.

I welcome any future investigators' questions, because it would allow me to explain SPD's pointless lies. AAND how they tried to convict me for something as retarded as mistakenly leaving a balisong laying around. I seriously doubt any military investigator would consider my "dangerous knife" reason for them to fear for their safety.

 

[tom19176]

samuel, in most jurisdictions, a summons is issued in lieu of arrest, and the fact that you weren't cuffed and printed does not mean this was not considered an arrest in your jurisdiction. You recieved what amounts to a criminal court summons or apperance ticket and it most likely would be considered an arrest. That all explained, have you consulted with a lawyer other than the PD? Good luck with your hearing.

 

[jnich67]

I haven't read all the replies here, but hire a good lawyer and let him go after them hard. I'm a "law and order" kind of guy, but that also means the police have to use proper judgement.

Jordan

 

[samuel.l.thompson]

Well, that sucks that it's considered an arrest.
I DID consult a Lawyer, ... too expensive ($2500 just for pretrial). He didn't seem too experienced with my specific situation anyways.

I recently asked my PD how they would enforce the whole 'remain weapons-free' for 6 months.

Seriously WTF??!! Do they really expect me to turn in my pepper spray and kitchen knives??? Or am I just supposed to be free of Weapons Violations??? That would be much easier.

My Public Defender's plan for tomorrow is:
"Monday will be very busy so we won't have more than a few minutes to talk. I'll come tell you the prosecutor's newest offer and if you don't feel sure that you want to take it, we can set your case for trial or we can ask to have your pre-trial to be postponed for 30 days. Think about which option you'd like if the new offer isn't different and/or better than the current one. "

I am interested in using my full time job for the community service... (Can i do that???). I pick up litter on the side of highways for the Washington Dept. of Ecology.