Ball bearing pivot knives, a new opinion from me.

How many time a year do we talk about this subject anyway? Ha Ha... I remember two years ago someone posted a picture of the internals of there ZT...the bearing had "Cold Rolled" themselves to the point that the races must have been riding on the Ti.....it still worked nice and smooth the op claimed....wasn't that you Stabman? Do you still have the photo if it was?

IMO the whole argument still exists because most people dont ever really "use" a knife to the point we are going to see bearing failures. The above example was one of the very few times that I had seen a bearing knife actually "used" to the point of validating any fear of a potential design flaw, or being a shining example of how hardened steel bearings dont abide to some imaginary traffic light telling them to stop "cold rolling" themselves into soft titanium slabs.....
I think this was back when they used the blue nylon races.....when the bearings rolled/galled themselves past there effective depth the nylon took over as a pivot bushing...You see ZT has you covered and always thinking ahead....:D
 
brandoak said:
How many time a year do we talk about this subject anyway? Ha Ha... I remember two years ago someone posted a picture of the internals of there ZT...the bearing had "Cold Rolled" themselves to the point that the races must have been riding on the Ti.....it still worked nice and smooth the op claimed....wasn't that you Stabman? Do you still have the photo if it was?

IMO the whole argument still exists because most people dont ever really "use" a knife to the point we are going to see bearing failures. The above example was one of the very few times that I had seen a bearing knife actually "used" to the point of validating any fear of a potential design flaw, or being a shining example of how hardened steel bearings dont abide to some imaginary traffic light telling them to stop "cold rolling" themselves into soft titanium slabs.....
I think this was back when they used the blue nylon races.....when the bearings rolled/galled themselves past there effective depth the nylon took over as a pivot bushing...You see ZT has you covered and always thinking ahead....:D
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It was my knife. It functioned perfectly fine with the grooves. No issues
 
brandoak said:
How many time a year do we talk about this subject anyway? Ha Ha... I remember two years ago someone posted a picture of the internals of there ZT...the bearing had "Cold Rolled" themselves to the point that the races must have been riding on the Ti.....it still worked nice and smooth the op claimed....wasn't that you Stabman? Do you still have the photo if it was?
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No, I was the guy who took mine apart, and didn't bother to take a picture.
There was more "wear" on the steel of the blade than on the titanium; neither had more than a slight marking.

But then again, I don't crank down the pivot on knives with bearings.
Some people say the great thing about knives with bearings is "I can crank down the pivot and the blade still moves nicely."
 
We are fortunate that the lateral pivot loads are so light on folding knives. I recall having badly brinnelled bearing races on the bottom bracket spindle and cups of my racing bicycle in the 70's. I cleaned and repacked the bearings with fresh grease every month, and still they failed! Modern bikes use better quality bearings, and such failures are a thing of the past, gladly!
 
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GermanyChris said:
So in conclusion there's no conclusion and stabman stabman is as usual the most creative guy in the thread
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Zombie411 said:
Yes. Pulling staples, and cutting apples. maybe taking some gum off a shoe.



Agreed. It was built to make a rather large profit from a targeted market.
These are niche knives, would you agree to that?

These are strictly my opinions. I have no disdain for these knives. I just do not see them as the sturdy work horses that some feel (in their opinion) they are.

Working on boats/ships/marinas/shipyards for more than 40 years has taught me that certain tools can save your life in certain situations.
Becoming tangled up in 3" docking line is no joke. reinforced hydraulic lines, a jammed watertight door, 2/0 battery cables melting to ground, there are many more examples of working situations where a ball bearing pocket folder is laughable at BEST, and deadly at worst.
A washer pivot lock back has the advantage, and with the money saved you can take your family on vacation (in some cases) or at least out for dinner.

For the office or the average farm use, perhaps a cop, maybe a job at the Home Depot shipping center... All for a bearing knife.
It's just not a sturdy work tool. IMHO
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The ZT 0560 would not be able to effectively cut through 3" docking line? I beg to differ. As for the small office chores to which you are referring: those tasks may be menial and simple but they do not amount to what I would consider to be "play" as you implied(fun-factor at the desk, etc.). Moving on. You claimed that there are compromises from folder to fixed blade especially in a survival situation. So, you're identifying tasks at the very extreme end of what could be considered hard duty and then claiming the bearing folder is incapable of effectively taking on these tasks. Most folders-regardless of bushing type-are not capable of taking the stresses that you're discussing. Again, a fixed blade or pry bar are your only options.
 
Ok.
Mr Murdamook sir,
My opinion is based upon a bunch of cut fingers from a bunch of old knives.
I mean no did-respect towards any one or their choice of cutlery.

Folders are cool as heck but useless as a tool. That's just MHO.
Take a folding 1/4" ratchet wrench, or a folding #2 screwdriver. They are not as good as a solid tool or a fixed blade EVER.

I like these cool arse folders. I do!
They are just not tools IMHO.
I'd prefer a dollar store screwdriver to a 1k retail folder. Just MY choice.

no-hype.jpg
 
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I'm not going to add anymore to the argument in favor of either side in terms evidence. But I feel alot of the resistence to ball bearings is less about its inferiority as a technology to traditional washers and more about resistence to the latest trends and fads. Like how some refuse to move away from liner locks to try a framelock and how traditional knife lovers will never carry a modern folder.
 
Dfunk1210 said:
Like how some refuse to move away from liner locks to try a framelock and how traditional knife lovers will never carry a modern folder.
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Just learned about Frame locks recently...
Cool as Sade...

02-sade.jpg


Modern knives are cool but way over rated as to what they are (IMHO)
 
Zombie411 said:
Ok.
Mr Murdamook sir,
My opinion is based upon a bunch of cut fingers from a bunch of old knives.
I mean no did-respect towards any one or their choice of cutlery.

Folders are cool as heck but useless as a tool. That's just MHO.
Take a folding 1/4" ratchet wrench, or a folding #2 screwdriver. They are not as good as a solid tool or a fixed blade EVER.

I like these cool arse folders. I do!
They are just not tools IMHO.
I'd prefer a dollar store screwdriver to a 1k retail folder. Just MY choice.

no-hype.jpg
Click to expand...
I stay out of these threads these days. But i have to chime in here and say unless you're half joking you're a bit off base here. Folders can be tools, but if you're going to beat on them then maybe fancy man jewellery titanium frame lock flippers on bearings with carbon fiber inserts and gold trimmings aren't the best choice. My cold steel knives have been used like tools for over decade and hold up as good as the day i bought them. The locks don't have a spec of wiggle in them. Even my spyderco Militarys have proven to be fantastic cutting tools even with a weaker locking mechanism and finer tips. But according to your comments they aren't as good as a $1 screw driver. Are they as tough as fixed blades? No. Are they good tools that are more carryable and hold up to hard work? Yes, and im afraid personal opinions wont change that fact as the results speak for themselves.
 
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Mick_1KRR said:
Folders can be tools, but if you're going to beat on them then maybe fancy man jewellery titanium frame lock flippers on bearings with carbon fiber inserts and gold trimmings aren't the best choice.
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I do agree sir. I actually understand, and agree with your entire post.
It's more a matter of I tend to exaggerate my point(s) when I have an opinion.

I mean I'll use a penny for a screwdriver, and a pocket knife for a hammer.
If I can do what I need to do with what's in my pockets... I find that better than looking all over the place for something else.
I wouldn't feel a 4-5-$600.00 knife is appropriate for anything much more than babying. I can't afford to beat up a knife like that.
 
Zombie411 said:
I do agree sir. I actually understand, and agree with your entire post.
It's more a matter of I tend to exaggerate my point(s) when I have an opinion.

I mean I'll use a penny for a screwdriver, and a pocket knife for a hammer.
If I can do what I need to do with what's in my pockets... I find that better than looking all over the place for something else.
I wouldn't feel a 4-5-$600.00 knife is appropriate for anything much more than babying. I can't afford to beat up a knife like that.
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All good mate :) i tend to exaggerate my replies as well, hence why i stay out of debates a bit now. And yep i agree it's can feel a bit cruel beating up a knife that costs upwards of $400.
 
I have a couple 50.00 folders I hate to beat up.
My working knives usually come from auction lots as I feel they were almost free..

The better ones go in the budding collection.
 
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