Banged Out My First Blade

69_knives

69_knives

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
1,855
Well, I went and banged out my first blade today and all went pretty well.

I'm going to have to make myself a little plaque outlining the basic steps though; Anneal, bang, anneal, shape, grind, etc. And most importantly, DON'T HARDEN the BLADE BEFORE IT'S COMPLETELY SHAPED, FILED, AND GROUND! DOH!!

File would not touch it after quenching so I tempered it then put the 50 grit belt to it and kept it cool by dunking it in water every couple seconds of being on the belt.

I promised my boss that I would make him a nice knife for letting me run my forge in the back yard of the shop and I was hoping this first one would be the one I would give to him but this being a learning piece, I don't think it's worthy of being a gift. I'm quite sure it's a very good knife, functionally, and I'll probably use it happily the rest of my life but it sort of has a 'polished turd' look so I'll just keep it for myself. Btw, my goal for this one was a general purpose Kitchen, Camp, Butcher knife and I think it worked out well. It's 10.25" OAL and 6" blade.

Here are some pics of todays accomplishments:

Polished
blade004.jpg


temper colors
blade002.jpg


temper colors
blade003.jpg


all buffed out.
blade001.jpg


Some Linesman Pliers that I modified. I think I wrecked them by keeping them in the fire. another lesson learned.

stand004.jpg


Closed up around the burner; much better.
stand002.jpg


Helping hand so I can drink coffee while annealing some more metal.
stand003.jpg


Forge stand comes apart easily for storage.
stand001.jpg
 
Look'n good. That would make a good skinner. I need rounded tips when skinning because I have a habit of poking through the hide.

I think you might be using the wrong kind of bricks in your forge. They look like hard fire brick, which is the wrong type. You want the almost featherlight refractory bricks - they are usually white. You must be using a ton of gas to keep that forge hot.

Good luck.
 
bjalongi said:
Look'n good.

You want the almost featherlight refractory bricks - they are usually white. You must be using a ton of gas to keep that forge hot.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks,

I don't know about the gas usage, it seems to be OK, takes quite some time before the outside of the bricks become hot so I think that means it is insulating well and when I fired it the first time last night the inside glowed for quite a while. 'Shrugs' still could be the wrong ones though...
 
Well done.

Forging a set of tongs is good forging practice and you wind up with a useful tool besides. You can make tongs out of the "weld steel" from Home Depot or w/e you have in your area.
 
Thank you.

We have HD here but I'm not sure what you mean by 'weld steel' You mean the 5' slotted stands where they have all the tubing, flatbar, roundbar, allthread, etc?
 
Gotcha, we're on the same page. :)

I've got a fair bit of pipe that's better than HD stuff, I can probably make something out of that.
 
Good start. It looks a lot like my first blade (really).
You now know that it is not just a simple matter to pound a bar of steel some and get a finished knife. Some tips for the next one:

Only forge when the steel is fully heated and at red-orange to orange-yellow heat (1600-2100F).Put it back in the forge when it gets down toward red.Never forge at dull red heat.Also ,avoid overheating (and burning) the steel.

Try not to hit it so hard - it makes deep dings - they are hard to get out.Five well delivered blows does a much better job than one monster bash.
Holding the hammer straight will control some of the deep edge marks. Rounding the hammer face more at the edges (do it on the belt grinder) will help ,too. Sand/Polish the face to 400 grit when shaped the way you want it.

Use a welders wire brush to brush the scale off the steel every time you take it from the forge. Also wipe the loose scale off the anvil every time you put the steel back into the forge. Driving the scale into the blade when forging causes the deep pits that are nearly impossible to remove.

When starting to forge the blade bevels, first bend the bar in a banana shape. The downward bend will lift as you forge the bevel in and become a straight spine instead of a curved skinner shape. If the blade needs to be re-shaped during forging, just turn it on edge (or spine) and hammer it straight. It won't hurt anything if the steel is at proper heat. The last thing i do each heat is to straighten the blade up - then put it back into the forge to come back to forging heat.

If you get into these habits, you will never have many of the problems that plague new forgers.

One other observation:
I see no choke plate on your venturi burner? Without some way to control the air, it will only run at full blast.You need to be able to adjust the mix somewhat, to get a proper flame.

I like the hard firebrick ,knock down forge. Simple but workable.As you forge more, eventually you will want to build an insulated lining forge. Your setup will allow you to make a new chamber unit as you grow. Converting the current burner to a blown burner would be easy,too.

Keep at it. Write down your forging procedure, and go over it, before you put the steel in the fire. Drill all holes prior to HT. But most importantly HAVE FUN.
Stacy
 
Stacy, thanks for the tips and info.

I am going to start compiling a list of things I need to do for this coming weekend.

The surface of the shops anvil is really rough and from the texture in the hammer blow dents, I think the 4# sledge I was using is really rough too. so I need to get my own hammer and find a smoother surface than the anvil to bang on. the anvil was also really high so it was hard to work on.

I will look into the choke. I was using the regulator to adjust the gas pressure.
 
69 -

I don't know about you but I'm a really big guy and 4 LBs is more than I use regularly

I generally use a 3000 gram (3.3 Lb I think) and switch to a 2 Lb when I get almost finished with the forged shape.

As your arm gets tired you lose a lot of hammer control and that can really ruin a nice piece.

just a thought
 
A few things about hammering... it's fun ain't it :D

Keep your hammer swinging elbow tucked into your side, it helps to reduce wild swings that dig the hammer edge into your blade.

Learn to relax your hand. Keep your hand loose on the upswing and most of the downswing, tighten it right before you strike. It sounds weird, it takes practice but it will reduce fatigue.

I use a "whompin" stick and a wooden mallet to do straightening. They'll straighten steel without moving it like a metal hammer.

Right before you put the steel back in the forge take a good look at it. Think about what you need to do next heat, while it's heating think about what needs to be done and how you'll need to do it. You won't waste a heat wondering what you need to do.

When you get to the point where you can't control the hammer do to fatigue, STOP!!! take a break, it's not life or death. Do a couple of normalizing cycles, drink some coffee while it cools off and let your arm rest.
 
stephanfowler said:
69 -

I don't know about you but I'm a really big guy and 4 LBs is more than I use regularly

I generally use a 3000 gram (3.3 Lb I think) and switch to a 2 Lb when I get almost finished with the forged shape.

As your arm gets tired you lose a lot of hammer control and that can really ruin a nice piece.

just a thought
Click to expand...

3 kilograms is 6.6 lbs :)
 
Will Leavitt said:
A few things about hammering... it's fun ain't it :D

Keep your hammer swinging elbow tucked into your side, it helps to reduce wild swings that dig the hammer edge into your blade.

Learn to relax your hand. Keep your hand loose on the upswing and most of the downswing, tighten it right before you strike. It sounds weird, it takes practice but it will reduce fatigue.

I use a "whompin" stick and a wooden mallet to do straightening. They'll straighten steel without moving it like a metal hammer.

Right before you put the steel back in the forge take a good look at it. Think about what you need to do next heat, while it's heating think about what needs to be done and how you'll need to do it. You won't waste a heat wondering what you need to do.

When you get to the point where you can't control the hammer do to fatigue, STOP!!! take a break, it's not life or death. Do a couple of normalizing cycles, drink some coffee while it cools off and let your arm rest.
Click to expand...

It is fun.

Once I get or make myself a proper anvil that is lower than sternum level the fatigue will be reduced and my own hammer that I can round off will be a plus!
 
sternum level, hold on there cowboy, that is WAY to high for an anvil, especially if your swinging a 4 Lb'er

I would seriously suggest not swinging anything more than 1LB at that kind of height or you could do serious damage to your arm
 
Hi Friends,

I am always so pleased how much I learn on this forum. Just can't say enough about that. Thanks everyone.

Good for you 69knives! Cool start-up forge. Yes, get that anvil down. The height usually suggested is to put the top of the anvil where the knuckles of your closed fist reach when standing straight with your arms at your sides.

All the best, Phil
 
Sternum height??? Waaayyyy too close to the face.

One other thing... those pliers don't have zinc on them do they? You can get really sick if they do.
 
Will, no on the zinc; they are some sort of nickel stainless alloy.


Did a little more work on my blade tonight, well I can almost call it a knife now...

I whacked it against the lip of a coffee can and it bent the lip in about half an inch along with a small cut, made a tiny mark on the blade that easily honed out with my granddad's razor hone.

A little more shaping/polishing on the guard, buttcap and handle then I can epoxy everything and peen the buttcap on.

One question, what's a good length of tang to leave out the buttcap to peen over? I have a little over 1/16" right now. Does anybody solder the guard on to seal it up around the blade, or is it worthwhile. My concern would be if it got dropped it might hit the guard and break the solder.

knife001.jpg
 
Silver solder or JB weld at the guard/tang, it should be a tight press fit requiring a slight amount of hammering to drive on. The silver solder/JB weld is just to seal the tang from liquids. Don't kill yourself on this, this time, it's your first knife, most important thing is to get it finished.

I think about 1/8-3/16" on tang for peening over.

Looks good so far!
 
Thanks Will,

Not trying to kill myself on the project, I'll consider it a crash course. :)

I'd like to get a knife made each for my brother and sister for christmas. I stopped giving 'bought' gifts a number of years ago because of my beliefs and as a protest to the commercialism that it has turned in to, so, knives are something I am willing to give as gifts.

My late Grandma had a much coveted set of knives, one of which I received and I think my brother and sister may have one each but they were so well used and worn so thin that they can't really be respectfully used so I'm going to try to make replicas of them.

Basically, if I were to stretch the blade material in this first blade out about 3 more inches and keep the basic shape, curve and all, that would be the exact shape of the knives. A little less width, a little less thickness and a bit longer is what I'll be going after.
 
You could always use a stepping stool until you lower your anvil. All the stepping up and down would give a good little workout!
 
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