Batoning Large Wood With a Small Blade

[Dave568]

I was thinking the other day, and I began to wonder if it was possible to effectively baton a piece of wood with a knife that has a shorter length than the diameter of the wood. I started coming up with some ideas, and came up with the following. I haven't had a chance to try it, but I was wondering if anyone else has ever tried anything like this. I even drafted up some [poor] graphics in MS Paint to help explain the technique.

When batoning normal wood, the process looks something like this:

The belly of the blade covers the entire diamter of the log, and the end of the knife closest to the tip is hammered with some sort of baton. Since the length of the knife is larger than the diameter of the wood, you always have some length of knife sticking out from the log that you can hammer with the baton. My idea addresses this problem, and could possible allow you to baton wood with a diameter that is nearly twice that of the length of your blade.

The idea I am thinking about works in a similar manner, but uses two steps instead of one. You start by positioning the knife so that the blade extends at least halfway across the log, but you need to be sure to leave at least an inch or an inch and a half of blade exposed near the handle. It would look something like this:

Now, instead of using the baton to hammer the tip on the opposite side through the wood, you use the baton on the exposed length of blade that is closest to the handle. Once you have batoned the knife through the entire log, it should be split from top to bottom on one side.

The next step is to begin the same process, but on the opposite side of the log. Position the knife now on the opposite side of the log, so that the tip of the blade is positioned over the already split area of the log, like this:

Using the same batoning method as before, you would baton the knife all the way through the wood, creating another split that lines up with the first split. This would, in theory, split the log into two pieces.

Now, without actually being able to try this yet, I'm not sure how well it might work. I can already think of some potential problems with it. When batoning wood normally, you press down on the handle as you baton the opposite end. The problem with this method is that if you press down on the handle as you baton, the blade might start to angle itself with the tip moving upwards inside of the log as the area near the handle goes through it. In order to get around this, you may have to actually pull up on the handle as you baton, allowing more force from the blow to be transferred to the tip. I would imagine this would be much easier during the second step, since the tip would hopefully not actually be receiving any resistance from the wood, since the tip is supposed to be going through an area that is already split.

Well, I was just wondering if anyone has actually tried this before, and if so, does it work? Does anyone see any other flaws with this method? Any ways to improve it? I think if this is possible, it would be very helpful in situations where the only good wood available is too large to baton conventionally.

I am personally going to try this out sometime in the next few days, but I haven't had a chance to get out in to the bush yet.

I'm looking forward to hearing some feedback.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

That is how you commonly split wood with an axe or wedge, you start at the side. Such tools are however usually thick enough so that they will induce the wood to split directly. The knife generally doesn't and thus you have to basically cut all the way through it which is difficult.

Some knives may also not respond well vibration wise to being impacted in that area. For larger wood you can just split off slabs, reduce the side of the side of the wood and then split it directly. Generally with larger wood you have to split it more than once anyway for burning and such so you are not wasting time by starting with a multiple slab approach.

I have batoned on that impact point on some knives recently mainly exploring impact nodes after discussing balance with Possum. On some knives it is actually more comfortable to hit them there than through the tip. It is harder to pull up vs push down on the handle though, so there is a fatigue consideration long term. However you can quickly make wedges after a few splits if you have to do a lot of it anyway.

-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

From a statics point of view, you have to pull up on the handle as much as the wood is resisting the blade and apply a force with the baton more than twice of that that to get the knife to move in the wood, whereas with the batoning illustrated in picture 1 the handle and baton each contribute about half of the force that the wood is resisting with.

Of course with batoning it's also about dynamics and energies. My education and experience does not allow me to comment on that.

I did that kind of batoning with a 1 4/5 inch folder into a 2x2 (1.75 inch actual dimensions?), and it was very difficult, compared to anything that is long enough to baton on the other side, a Mora for instance.

 

[runningboar]

Somebody please school me on this whole "batoning" wood thing, not just with a small blade but with any blade. I have spent a lifetime in the outdoors hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, canoeing and just loafing. The only time I have ever split wood was with a maul, an axe or, a wedge to dry to burn in a wood stove.

On knife forums it seems like a big thing to bang your knife through a piece of wood with a stick, why would you want to do this? I have built millions of fires tons of shelters and set thousands of snares and I have never "batoned" anything. Somebody help me out and explain what yall use all these split sticks for. Chris

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It is mainly promoted as a survival technique,it is the same basic technique used on shop hack knives which Lee illustrates in his book on sharpening. It isn't something new. Mears illustrates many of the bushcraft applications of batoning in his TV shows to make various objects as the first step is usually to split the wood, as well as for fire.

Generally it isn't something you do if you have a splitting axe, just like you generally don't buck wood to length with an axe if you have a decent swede saw, or use either if you have a chainsaw. It is more for when you have limited equipment and you still need to split or cut large wood.

-Cliff

 

[Dave568]

Somebody please school me on this whole "batoning" wood thing, not just with a small blade but with any blade. I have spent a lifetime in the outdoors hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, canoeing and just loafing. The only time I have ever split wood was with a maul, an axe or, a wedge to dry to burn in a wood stove.

On knife forums it seems like a big thing to bang your knife through a piece of wood with a stick, why would you want to do this? I have built millions of fires tons of shelters and set thousands of snares and I have never "batoned" anything. Somebody help me out and explain what yall use all these split sticks for. Chris

Since you seem to have quite a bit of experience in the outdoors, I think it's safe to assume you know why splitting wood is sometimes necessary to start or maintain a fire. Batoning with a knife is popular because it isn't always practical to carry around a heavy axe or maul. For a backpacker, leaving behind a heavy axe will allow more room to carry other essentials, or cut down on the overall weight of your pack which will allow you to travel without wasting quite as much energy. Most people who venture off into the outdoors will usually carry some sort of sturdy fixed blade, which in a pinch can be used to split firewood via the batoning method.

I personally use it quite often. It allows me to start fires in rainy weather because you can get at the dry center of the wood. I also use it quite often to create smaller kindling from larger pieces of wood to fuel the beginning stages of a fire.

 

[laurens]

I find it easier to split wood into small splints with a knife than a axe,which feels somewhat awkward.

 

[kel_aa]

As a matter of non-survival, there are plenty of uses for batoning as well. I can split one stick into two or more to use supporting our cucumber plants. If you want to carve something small from a 2/4 or a log, do you find it easier to whittle the whole thing down to size or rather split off large parts that you don't need?

 

[shotgunner11]

Batoning is a much better method to use when your trying for a more percision split. If I'm just splitting up firewood, yea, an ax or hatchet.

 

[runningboar]

For the life of me I can't see a need for it and it seems like a great way to break or ruin your knife especially in a survival situation. If I need a small stick I get a small stick, I would not split a big stick with my knife to stake my tomatoes, I would go down into the swamp behind my house and cut some river cane.

I heat my home with wood so I build fires very frequently in the winter and I build fires outside quite a lot also, I live in a very wet humid area and have never had to split wood to start a fire or maintain it, whittle a bit off the outside but never split it. The small twigs next to the trunk on dead/down trees are always dry enough to burn, and if not I can take my pocket knife and a 1/2" stick and make a few fuzz sticks in a minute, I am not going to beat my knife through a six inch log to do the same thing. The only reason I split wood for the stove is to make the wood fit the stove and to dry it quicker, I like to burn a mixture of dry and green wood.

I carry a 12" machete a lot and might use it to baton something if I ever figured out a reason too, but I would never use my good knife with a fine edge to do it, or the only knife I had in a "survival" situation. Chris

 

[Dave568]

For the life of me I can't see a need for it and it seems like a great way to break or ruin your knife especially in a survival situation.

All of the examples you cite involve you being at home on your own property. I can't really see much of a need to baton wood on one's own property either, since there is almost always a better alternative. However, on a backpacking trip in the rain when all you have is a knife, it can become quite necessary to split wood for a fire. Of course, like you mentioned, you could always whittle the entire exterior of a log to reveal the dry center, but that is going to take a significantly longer amount of time. If you need to quickly start a fire with wet wood and all you have is a knife, I have to say batoning is probably the fastest way to get usable wood.

You also mentioned the issue of damaging your knife by batoning it. The only time I have ever come close to damaging a knife when batoning was when I tried to baton a Mora 760 through a 3.5" diameter log. This was certainly pushing the limits of the Mora. As I was batoning it it started to bend a significant amount. I just took it out of the wood, and there was no permanent damage. Other than that, I have beat the living hell out of some of my knives while batoning and I have never had any chipping, bending, edge deformation, or anything. With a .25" thick spine knife, especially with a good steel like SR101, the only thing that will be damaged while batoning is the baton itself, and of course the wood you are splitting.

 

[shotgunner11]

Batoning really isn't all that hard on a stout blade. I refrain from batoning with folders and thin, small fixed blades but my Becker has split more wood than my Wetterlings this summer and is really no worse for wear.

Give it a shot Runningboar, ya just might like it...... Com'on man, all the cool kids are wreakin their knives..

 

[Temper]

I dont have a problem with battoning but if you are not in any mad rush it makes a lot of sense to start the split to the depth of the blade then remove it, cut wedges and use those.

 

[runningboar]

Other than that, I have beat the living hell out of some of my knives while batoning and I have never had any chipping, bending, edge deformation, or anything. With a .25" thick spine knife, especially with a good steel like SR101, the only thing that will be damaged while batoning is the baton itself, and of course the wood you are splitting.

I think that is where we are different, I will never "beat the hell" out of one of my knives, a knife is for cutting and slicing and an axe is for chopping. Bare in mind this my opinion and other peoples are different, the big huge chopping knives are a bit like batoning to me, that is to say almost useless, not as good as an axe for chopping and not as good as my pocket knife for cleaning a fish or peeling a potato.

Of course, like you mentioned, you could always whittle the entire exterior of a log to reveal the dry center, but that is going to take a significantly longer amount of time.

As I said I have never had to split wood in order to get it to burn, the whittling I mentioned in my other posts was talking about small sticks not "logs" once the fire is significantly burning the bigger wood will dry out and burn fine. Dave, do you spend much time in the out of doors. Chris

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... a knife is for cutting and slicing and an axe is for chopping.

Most knives commonly used for batoning are generally not designed simply to cut well. If you are just cutting with the knife then it is 1/16", hollow ground and full hard M2 or similar. Axes are generally more productive for chopping on thick woods, long knives like parangs generally work better on smaller woods especially springy ones.

-Cliff

 

[Dave568]

I think that is where we are different, I will never "beat the hell" out of one of my knives, a knife is for cutting and slicing and an axe is for chopping.

I have to disagree. A knife is not just for cutting or slicing. Sure, there are knives designed just for cutting and slicing, and I would never baton or chop with one of those. However, there are probably an equal number of knives designed for hard uses such as batoning and chopping. Just take a look at all of the knives out there - if knives were only for slicing and cutting why would there be so many knives being manufactured with a .25" thick blade?

Bare in mind this my opinion and other peoples are different, the big huge chopping knives are a bit like batoning to me, that is to say almost useless, not as good as an axe for chopping and not as good as my pocket knife for cleaning a fish or peeling a potato.

Sure, a knife might not be as good at chopping as an axe, but like I said, many people who send a lot of time in the wilderness backpacking do not carry an axe with them. For these people, a knife is a great tool for chopping, batoning, and almost any other task that you might normally use an axe for. In your case, it sounds like you never venture off your own property, so you will always have an axe at hand. If I never ventured off my property, I would probably always use an axe as well.

As I said I have never had to split wood in order to get it to burn, the whittling I mentioned in my other posts was talking about small sticks not "logs" once the fire is significantly burning the bigger wood will dry out and burn fine. Dave, do you spend much time in the out of doors. Chris

It seems strange that you would question whether I spend a lot of times outdoors. It's not only a bit rude, but also quite ironic, since are the one who is unfamiliar with some of the most basic knife techniques.

 

[pict]

Batonning is just one more thing you can do with a knife if you feel the need. I do find it useful under certain circumstances here in rainy season when many types of wood are soaked through. The smaller diameter stuff is soaking wet to the core. Sometimes it is nice to take a good looking piece of wood and split it into kindling to get the fire going and then add a few pieces that have been split in half to get a solid fire up and running. The fire itself will dry any wood you care to burn once things are started.

It is also a good idea to know how to take down saplings by batonning a small knife.

It is just a matter of making the most out of what you have. I don't bother to baton wood in dry season, everything burns easily. Rainy season is another animal altogether. Mac

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I don't bother to baton wood in dry season, everything burns easily.

Locally most times you can find dry fresh woods, alder is common and it is both small and frequently dead. However in some places I have walked quite awhile (like an hour) and have seen little dead wood and thus scouting to gather wood for a fire would be problematic. Most local woods tend to burn poorly when fresh.



This is a bunch of birch split fairly fine :



This is a pitch bark fire, I use the finely split birch just as a test burn. It is rare around here so it is almost never burned. The tar actually boiled out of it, it didn't burn as much as just slowly char. I left a few pieces fairly thick and they actually ignored the fire and remained when the others had turned to ash. It is kind of ironic when you consider how great the bark is for fire starting.

-Cliff

 

[Vivi]

Only in really heavy downpour have I considered batoning out of necessity. Generally, like Boar, I can just whittle a stick down to the dry center. Has to be rainy indeed for me to think about batoning. Only times I've batoned anything were either to practice the technique should I ever need to use it, or to see if the knife I was using could stand up to it.

If it's wet I usually whittle a stick down to the dry stuff, find a protected spot and making shavings or fuzz sticks. Then I'll take some kindling and use my knife to roughly strip off the majority of the bark to help start things up.

 

[shecky]

Batoning seems to be big with the bushcraft crowd. I do see runningboar's point, however. I've only batoned wood to see that it can be done. I'd much rather use a hatchet for such things. I generally would never do it unless I had no choice.

It is kinda funny how much the topic of batoning wood turns up in forums. Kinda like a right of passage, or measure of one's skill.