Batoning versus not batoning

[TheGame]

The wood wouldn't exactly co-operate today. (As in, it is wet, and the tree fell within the last 2-3 weeks.) As far as grinds, I prefer convex, since as previously mentioned, it tends to want to split the wood faster.

 

[koyote]

Referring to a moment for axe use- I frequently baton an axe. yep. baton. axe.

But as KGD points out, the point here isn't about knife versus axe for ton of wood split into kindling. Though I will point out that specifcially for splitting, it's a lot less colorie intensive to use a baton. Just if you are in a calorie expenditure based situation.

Thing is, batoning is - I think that I fail to get this across- batoning isn't a replacement for an axe (though I'm MUCH more likely to have a folding corona and a 4-6 inch leuku than an axe with me at any given moment and I NEVER ONCE used an axe when doing tree trimming/removal work). Batoning is a whole set of techniques for splitting and notching- chiselling- materials.


I would be happier making a chair using baton techniques than anything else- be the batoned item a chisel, axe, or knife. I'd probably pick a knife because draw cutting and scraping with an axe suck rocks, and both items would be involved in making a decent chair. This is something I've done- and it's not part of the minimum stone age throw-away-all-comfort emergency mylar survival packet. But it sure beats witting on a stump full of ants.

 

[Mannlicher]

I don't see the complex issue others do with batoning.

While 500 bushcraft savvy folks might well give 450 different answers, mine is that you baton when you need to make a fire. If what you find on the ground is wet, then you baton some of the wet wood to get to the dry wood. That seems fairly straightforward to me.

I'll use an ax though, before I bash a knife.

 

[cramsey3006]

A good thread is like a good battle plan. It never survives first contact. LOL

Seriously though I would give the edge to convexed just because it cuts down on wedging but I would say that it really doesn't matter. If the knife is made to withstand the force both overall and at the edge, then it's a matter of preference like is demonstrated above AND in every other thread we have.

Though for the life of my I can't see how cramsey3006 is outchopping a hatchet with a 7 inch knife. Not saying he can't, just that I'm skeptical.

I'll tell you, that Potbelly cuts like a bigger knife. 1/4" thick and a hollow grind, it bites deeper than any similar knife I've tried. Choke back on that handle and it feels and chops like a 9" knife. I was totally surprised myself, believe me.

 

[pitdog]

The wood wouldn't exactly co-operate today. (As in, it is wet, and the tree fell within the last 2-3 weeks.) As far as grinds, I prefer convex, since as previously mentioned, it tends to want to split the wood faster.

I like that one, is that a Koyote or Culberson ?

 

[TheGame]

That is a Culberson golok

 

[Woods Walker]

Woodswalker:

yeah, preferred steels and grinds- because batoning isn't just an emergency "oops I forgot to get dressed" thing to do. I use a striker- flint/steel sparkmaker for my torches, but a bic for my grill. Not really determining that one is better in any absolute sense.

The axe thing is one reason I do baton- I don't like carrying a bunch of extra stuff.

I use a Bic 95% of the time when in the woods because it is simple and works. Granted I can start a fire using all sorts of methods including fire steels. I would hate to be in a northern forest during winter without an axe. In any case batoning is also “holly mother of pearl its –22F outside and I am not going to the sled to get my axe”.

This was my friend’s first batoning. He used a KA-BAR because it was the only fixed blade in the tipi and volunteers to run outside and brush the snow out of the sled in –20ish Fahrenheit looking for the axe were few and far between.

Darn nice results for his first time.

 

[CoyotePhysics]

I'm by no means an expert when it comes to grinds, but if you wanted to get some insipiration for making a batoning blade grab an axe or hatchen and look at the blade from the top down. You'll notice that the overall shape is concave, but the edge is convex. I've wondered if someone could (or perhaps already had) made a blade with that same basic format. Start with some super thick stock and the thin it down drastically untill you get closer to a good blade thickness and then put a convex edge on. Good idea? Bad idea? I don't know, but I'm not a knife maker. All I know is that I have a cheap hatchet that takes a shaving sharp edge without too much work and retains it surprisingly well even after some serious abuse (It is my beater hatchet so it gets used to cut off old roots that I'm tired of pulling on, breaking down pallets, splitting firewood that likely has a nail or two in it and cutting fruitcake)

 

[koyote]

I like that one, is that a Koyote or Culberson ?

Funny thing is, I spent about 20 seconds trying to figure out if I did a profile like that and then realized the forge finish was Culberson and not me.

NICE PIECE.

 

[koyote]

I use a Bic 95% of the time when in the woods because it is simple and works. Granted I can start a fire using all sorts of methods including fire steels. I would hate to be in a northern forest during winter without an axe. In any case batoning is also “holly mother of pearl its –22F outside and I am not going to the sled to get my axe”.

Okat, huge important basic fact of life here- while I think batoning is a valid and even artistic form of usage- I live in the Great Basin. The smallest axe I'd carry up in wisconsin or canuckistan or other Niflheim-esque environment is an SFA. But I'd still baton with my knife, anyway

 

[forcedestrike]

I guess I will have to go against the grain (heh) and stick with my axes & hatchets. Its just a comforting thought for me in the great white north to have access to an axe.

When out with the family batonning is usually more convenient since I always have a knife on me as opposed to a hatchet/axe.

I like Scandi's and Convex Grinds.

 

[TheGame]

Well, I guess since Christof started the thread, I should post a Koyote splitting, too...

 

[Mistwalker]

For just splitting wood (when actually using the wood for fire, not testing out a knife) I really don’t have a preference on grind or thickness. I seldom split anything thicker than 2 or 3 inches in diameter. I know that, as Ken pointed out, thinner blades do the initial penetration easier and are smooth all the way through but they have to travel further through the wood to actually split it so take more strikes. Thicker blades with steeper grinds are harder to drive in initially but don’t have to travel as far to split the wood, so you do have to strike harder to start with but less strikes on the whole so either way probably about the same amount of energy used. Besides I’m married, have two kids, and work multiple jobs…sometimes I like hitting something a little harder But I’m good with having a thin blade too as long as the heat treat and temper are good.

As for actually crafting things I prefer thinner blades and if they are thin grind doesn’t matter all that much to me. I have used machetes to baton larger pieces of wood

I can function with a scandi grind on a thin blade on a lot of things.

But if I do have a favorite grind and blade style then it is a high-saber convex with a shallow radius on a narrow-ish blade for a good combination of some strength of spine, strength of edge, and still has good slicing ability as well. It penetrates easily both with and against grain and is good for controllability in making small notches where wider blades can be a pain.

.

 

[dogstar]

mistwalker, very nice photos and batoning, there.

 

[koyote]

Well, I guess since Christof started the thread, I should post a Koyote splitting, too...

You sharpened that thing yet? I like that patinization.

 

[Woods Walker]

mistwalker

Nice photos and work.

 

[TheGame]

You sharpened that thing yet? I like that patinization.

I strop it after I use it everyday, hasn't needed a major sharpening yet. Cleanly slices paper, which is good enough for what it does.

 

[Rotte]

I like that Culberson golok!

 

[Bruce Culberson]

Covex grind -chopping & batoning
FFG - slicing
Hollow grind - straight razors

 

[koyote]

Bruce- I tend to think of hollow grinds as an art form developed to imitate machining processes in mass produced knives