Batoning, what is the controversy?

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
OK,

I have seen this topic come up a couple times, and I am mystified...

So, if you all would be kind enough, educate me about this controversy surrounding batoning...

Some people think it is abusive?

Some people think it is the only way to fly?

I saw a picture with a sign dividing the camp into those who baton and those who don't. Sounds like a jest, but is it pointing at a deeper conversation?

I guess I am pro the batoning....

I guess I also see it as a fact, not a debate, maybe I am missing something.....

Marion
 
can of worms MDP, can of worms......:D

I am of the school that feels that it is abusing a tool. When int he woods I cannot afford to have a essential tool like a knife possibly break. 99% of of my knives will NEVER ever be subjected to batoning.

the remaining 1% will, Its a Scrapyard SOD and can handle such abuse. ;):D
 
Until I found that is abusive, I've used this method big time. The knives involved were Aitor (JK I, Bowie, Oso Nero, Montero) and Fallkniven A1. I had no problem...
 
The controversy is that some people do it, and some people don't.
It really is that simple.
Those who do it, don't want knives that can't take it.
Those who don't do it, don't need knives that can take it. (Full tang, vs stick/other tang.)

That's how i see it anyway, but as always. YMMV. Just my 2 cents.
 
I would if I had to do it. I am old school. Take care of your equipment. The knife was for cutting. We now have knives that can take it. I use a kukri and grew up with an axe and had to use it daily to provide wood for the stove. That's chopping wood then splitting. It will sure impress someone when they see it for the first time. They will not loan you their knife.
 
Honestly I never heard of it prior to coming to BF. I have tried it and think it would be good skill for a dire situation. Short of that, I use tools designed for splitting wood, not knives. A good skill if you need it. Other than that I have no use for pounding on cutiing tools.
 
But never had the need myself

I am generally lazy and will burn a log in half and chuck both ends in before I expend energy to split it lengthwise. As far as making stuff thinner, I never was in a situation where I could find big logs, but could not find the thinner branches that went with it.

To each their own. Baton away!
 
Yeah I baton with my knives.But...only with those who can handle it ;) For example my M95 Sissipuukko has a drop forged and zone tempered 0,22 '' thick carbon steel blade.The tang is strong.It has no problems with batonning.But I couldn't do that with my beautiful handmade stick tang puukko :) I mostly use an axe for the serious wood splitting,but prefer batonning for the kindling.
So many people here (like me) have overbuilt knives - why do you need a .25'' knife if you don't baton :D :D :D
 
Interesting.

Has anyone done the research of the history of this technique? In what books it has been mentioned?

Did Kephart, Nessmuk, or Rustrum do it?

I know one the pre-eminent bushcraft and outdoor skills of our lives, mentioned it in his book printed in 1987, and I wonder if it was in the book before that.

Where did he learn it?

" A knife makes a poor chopping tool as it has no weight behind it. However if the knife back is struck with something heavy, it can make respectable cuts. Any sound, heavy stick (baton) that is comfortable to hold, will assist a knife in cutting down and limbing small trees, splitting wood and making many cutting operations easier and faster. Trees about 10 centimetres in diameter and too thick to bend can be cut down in a few minutes with a baton.
The knife used with a baton must be sturdy enough to withstand the abuse or it will bend or break. Using a folding knife puts a severe strain on the blade pin."
Mors Kochanski pg 116 Bushcraft Outdoor Skills and Wilderness Survival

I have never considered Mors Kochanski to be a controversial figure, I would think that he would probably be considered conservative.

Again, the internet has provided me not only with the means to discuss these things, but the exposure to different schools of thought on these subjects.

Marion
 
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PrimitiveMan said:
But never had the need myself

I am generally lazy and will burn a log in half and chuck both ends in before I expend energy to split it lengthwise. As far as making stuff thinner, I never was in a situation where I could find big logs, but could not find the thinner branches that went with it.

To each their own. Baton away!
Click to expand...

Could not be said better. I have tried it enough to know I could if necessary but have never needed to do it.
 
Maybe this is like the Buck knives thing... You know, stuff taken out of context....

You may know that Buck has had a logo that showed them with a bolt, a knife and and a hammer. And the legend became that you could hammer a Buck knife through a bolt.

The truth is, that it was done, as I understand it. With an early handmade Buck knife made from a Black Diamond file (very hard), a crappy no quality bolt, and light taps with the hammer. Not with huge swings, not wailing on the thing, because obviously, that would break the knife. It was more a showy demonstration of physics than a testament to the knife.

Boy, this one has really caught my attention.

Marion
 
My batoning days go back before I had the Internet and learned that the technique was called 'batoning.' I think my earliest recollection of splitting wood with a knife goes back to the first 'survival' book I ever purchased,the SAS Survival Guide. In the book, Lofty Wiseman mentions splitting wood by hitting the spline of a knife with a rock. Since I had a knife with a saw back spine (Buck M9), I was reluctant to use a rock for fear of damaging the saw teeth. So, I picked up a small log, and the rest is history.

I have always used a 'baton', usually a big stick or small log, to split campfire wood. However, when splitting wood with a knife, I have always been careful to not to overtask whatever knife I am using. I have used knives ranging from basic Moras and some folders (for smaller, lighter splitting) to my Camillus-made Becker Brute (which has been pounded through some gnarly pieces).

Technique-wise, I view the knive blade as a wedge. I never strike it with the intention of driving all the way through a piece of wood in one stroke. How hard I strike the blade will depend on the the knife I am using, the quality of the wood I am trying to split, and the size and weight of the baton. When possible, I like to use a bucking wedge, too.

I was only able to locate a couple of my pics that relate to batoning:

Benchmade's 5" folder. I used this knife to split wood to make a set of BBQ tongs:
LFK.jpg

Tongs002.jpg


This is a Marttiini 'novelty' knife that my brother-in-law picked up for me when he went to Finland. It is a handsome knife. I think my researched yielded that it was made of something akin to a 420 stainless steel. But it worked just fine; the edge held up pretty well:
Ranger250003.jpg

Ranger250004.jpg

Ranger250005.jpg


My RS6 Predator has seen quite a bit of splitting duty, as well. I've posted these pics 87 bllion times already here, so sorry for the repetitive repeats:
RS6Split007-1.jpg

RS6Split018.jpg

Using a bucking wedge:
RS6Split023-1.jpg

RS6Split019.jpg

Final results from that morning:
RS6Split014.jpg


I also baton my hatchets, too. I do not own a hatchet larger than a 14" Gerber or Fiskars, so a baton is necessary for splitting wood safely with these tools. I do not take a full-sized ax when backpacking or car camping.

And for the record, I have never broken a knife or hatchet.

Whether you choose to baton or not is up to you. Bottom line is we are all fans of edged tools, and that's what brings us all together.
 
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I don't know. I have done it and still do it at times and I've only needed once when we were trying to make a small fire and the area was pretty wet...I had to get to the inside of some small logs I cut and battened away. It's just a technique and there are other alternatives. I do think knives touted as "heavy-use" knives should be able to handle it. I will say that knives improperly heat treated will break...there are several example of that happening (mostly manufacture blades); also, I've seen blade edges chip in hard wood with knots. Another problem is the stress on the tip where battened or the handle where the other end of torque is located...if the scales aren't attached well, they can shear the pins or jar the epoxy loose. The gnarled oak we have here in Texas won't be battened often by my blades...that stuff is just a beast, even with an axe and you really need a heavy splitting maul!

I still think that if somebody is testing out a bush blade or a blade that is expected to serve as a "survival" and hard-use knife, battoning is a legitimate test. I think the same debate on digging with your large knife exists...

Of course, if you’re planning on splitting wood, bring a small hatchet or axe:D

ROCK6
 
Considering I've seen someone on these very boards baton with an Opinel I have to say that it isn't abusive unless you do it WRONG. I've batoned plenty with my knives and never had an issue. And yes, sometimes it IS the easiest or most convenient option. For instance, making a hearth board for making a bow drill set.

However, one could easily get through a huge log with only a SAK--just tap the blade into the log at each end, then make some wooden wedges and knock them into the split that you started. You'll have to make the ends awfully thin to start, but it works.
 
Let me state for posterity that...

ROUND WOOD DOES BURN IN A SQUARE FIRE

OK, that said I have used batonning to get a fire going in extremely wet conditions.

I also use batonning to create flat boards from round wood for making things like fire boards.

I have used it to take down saplings with a small knife.

Outside of that off the top of my head I can't think of anything else I use this technique for on a regular basis. Mac
 
I do it all the time, because I'm lazy. Really, really lazy. It's a very simple way to get to dry wood in a jiffy, and to section out wood if you need a flat piece (plus the sharp corners then make for easy fuzzies).

I've batoned a lot of things, from Moras (510 and 2000) to 1/4" bowies, etc. Stick tang and full tang. None have shown ill-effect afterward. But then, I don't do it on 5" oak or anything either.

It's just a tool in the toolbox.
 
Hi all,

I baton because it is fun to do. Do I need to so far I have never had to. when it rains here is Ne. and even for several days. I can go grabb a peace of wood from the wood pile that I have and just start shaving up fuzz stick. Yes the first mm or 2 of the wood is damp, but after that you are in to good dry wood.

I personaly do not batton my 6" blade through a 5.5" log. If that log is bigger than my wrist then I am not going to batton my knife through it.
I will use my hatchet or axe or burn the log in to like some have said.

Yes Horrace Kephart talks about battoning but they called it Froeing. In the pic that they have on pg 208 of his book the knife looks like a RAMBO IV knife with a handle on it and the guy in the pic has a wooden log as his batton to hit the spine of the knife to split off some wood from his log.

Like I said i have and do batton because it is fun to do.
Not because I need to. In my area that is. Different climates might need different cutting chores though.



Bryan
 
I use my TAK to baton wood all the time, especially when im prepping for a fire. Wood with edges catches fire much easier than round ones. I think that any knife thats used as a primary outdoors-knife should handle batoning with ease. In the winter-time when everythings wet batoning is an easy way of getting to the dry wood.

That being said, i dont use it to split gigantic logs in one stroke. Ive seen pics here on the forum where people have batoned through giant massive hardwood logs that made the blade flex like crazy. Thats bordering on abuse i think. Your better served with a splitting wedge, axe or some specialized tool if you need to ram your blade through something that big.
 
I learned to baton from my grandfather and father. They did it sometimes when all they had was there 4 inch knife and wanted to split some wet wood to get to the dry stuff. I dont do it often. Sometimes I do it because I am lazy or just feel like doing it for fun. My knives will handle it. I have used my wood handle mora to do it just to see. If done right I dont see a problem with it.
 
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