Batoning, what is the controversy?

[erichsen]

OK,

I have seen this topic come up a couple times, and I am mystified...

So, if you all would be kind enough, educate me about this controversy surrounding batoning...

Some people think it is abusive?

Some people think it is the only way to fly?

I saw a picture with a sign dividing the camp into those who baton and those who don't. Sounds like a jest, but is it pointing at a deeper conversation?

I guess I am pro the batoning....

I guess I also see it as a fact, not a debate, maybe I am missing something.....

Marion

MDP,

Out of curiosity, was this query to ascertain if you should adapt your products, or to attempt to settle the core elements of the nature of this batoning "dispute?" I myself was unaware it was anything more than personal preference and knowing the limits of one's own equipment.

Are you interested in reaching some consensus regarding criterion for or against batoning? I have examples of each, I can't say my experience advances the position one way or another. However, I will express the view that the knives for which batoning may be necessary to cut relatively small saplings or dry kindling due to their short, light blades are exactly the knives that tend to be optimized to reduce cutting resistance and increased edge holding (thinner blade grind geometry, relatively high final hardness, little emphasis on toughness). This is not universally true, but reflects a trend I've observed.

I've seen a few fairly fancy factory knives fracture at the hilt or mid-way along the blade body at or near the point of percussion where the baton was concussed enthusiastically, with the crack propagating from an originating fracture at either the spine or at the edge. Some might say this is good evidence that any vigorous banging is abuse and even your standard $100+ factory-fare "field" or "camp knives" can fail under such use. The knife buying public's over-fascination with blade hardness may have much to do with these types of failures. In simple terms, achieving a high hardness is fairly cheap, heat cycling a batch of blades many times to achieve a final temper is time consuming and thus costly.

Some of the better made knives with differential tempers, annealed to achieve a softer, rather more springy temper can generally be slapped around fairly brutally without catastrophic failure. I myself would prefer to have an edge, point or main bevel that rolls over, bends or dings instead of chipping out or fracturing. Better a blunt or bent knife than a broken implement that used to be a knife.

If you know you will be facing some menacing tree branch that needs cutting, it would be wise to bring along a proper chopping instrument (a large heavy knife blade with a proper convex grind, a hatchet, an axe), or a folding/collapsible saw, while keeping the smaller knives for tasks which they are better suited for.

To the best of my knowledge, no one bothers battoning sturdy knife blades of 8" or more unless the purpose is to demonstrate equal parts machismo and masochism via the splitting of well dried log rounds, a feat better suited to purpose-built splitting axes and mauls.

Smaller blades for which batoning may be necessary to cut through the odd sapling tend to feature thinner edge grinds and often even higher final edge/blade hardness than well made larger bladed knives. The shorter blades are often deemed less apt to fracture in "normal" use, which generally excludes chopping and batoning from the criterion of what constitutes use which is "normal."

With warm regards,

-E

 

[coote]

Firstly, I haven't taken the time to read through all the posts. Sorry if I'm repeating something.

I am a bit surprised at all the controversy surrounding this subject. Before I started visiting Bladeforums I don't think I'd ever come across the term 'batoning'. However I have always been aware that one could use a knife like a froe, chisel or wedge by bashing it on the back with some sort of a hammer. The academic arguments around this subject make me smile. Heck, baton if you want to.... and don't if you don't. But it is a good option to keep in mind if you really need to cut through something that isn't easily sliced with your knife. I might carry a fairly fragile, hard-tempered pocketknife at times, but I would never want to not have ready access to a tough all-purpose blade that could withstand some moderate levering and some decent baton blows. To me knife is a tool, not another form of jewellery.

I have batoned blades, and I will continue to do so if necessary. I realize that in batoning there is a risk that my blade could break..... but this applies more to some knives than others.

I would reduce the risk of breakage by:

-Using a knife, if possible, that had a slightly softer temper along the spine and near the handle.
-Using only just enough force with the blows to get the job done.
-Using a soft hammer rather than a hard one (eg a stick instead of a steel hammer).
-Keeping my blows directly opposite the area of the blade that is doing the cutting.

I have batoned a knife to penetrate then cut thin steel sheetmetal while working with ventilation ducts. The idea was to make a big enough hole to get the sheetmetal shears in to continue the job. This was a very effective method. I seem to recall breaking a blade once.

When making bows from a log, I have often batoned the log lengthwise to split it in half. However the blade I used was generally an old brush-hook blade, and brush-hooks (or slashers as we call them) can take a lot of abuse.

And more recently I have found that batoning is a wonderfully effective method for splitting a sheep's carcase down through the backbone. I used a short Tramontina machete for this and it performed very well.

I have batoned blades, and will continue to do so as necessary. If a manufacturer specifically states that the blade will not be covered by warranty if batoned, then I might take that as a hint that the particular knife would probably hold a marvellous edge, but could be a tad hard and brittle.... so I'd probably pick another knife, or at least use that one with care.

There is no one right way to use a knife in my world. Flexibility and adaptability are important factors in evolution and survival.

Best wishes...... Coote.