Batoning, what is the controversy?

How long has batonning been around? Hundreds of years, in one form or another. The splitting froe (or frow) has long been used for splitting logs into shingles or for other projects, because it was so much faster in the days before electrically powered saws. It is also said that old men too feeble to swing an axe were given a froe and mallet to split firewood. (Eric Sloane's books are excellent reading with information about froes).
(photo from the internet)
froe.jpg


I have seen historical videos of Swedish craftsmen batonning the back of his puukko with the poll of an axe to make small crafts out of wood, much like Hobbexp does in his bucksaw video:
[youtube]OnrGvdNVfZs&feature=related[/youtube]

By the way, Hobbeexp is an excellent person to watch for lots of traditional Swedish knife techniques as well as other little woodcraft tricks.

I don't usually baton, mostly because my main carry knife is so small it's almost not worth it. Once recently I was batonning, and the front of the scale got pushed up against the wood and popped the scale right off. If I had needed, I could have wrapped the scale back on and kept using the knife, but I took the opportunity to use one of my other knives.

I have a couple of blades (which are actually dwindling in number over the last several months) that I pretty much only baton with, usually for special projects. Since I've started reducing their number, though, I use my axe or hatchet just as much.

I think that basically the entire baton debate can be reduced to a very simple resolution:
Do it or don't, it's your choice.
 
My only gripe about batoning is judging a knife by it's ability to batton. A knife that doesn't stand up to battoning is not necessarily a piece of junk.
 
I do it. never had any problems (but you must use a piece of wood to hit the back of the blade, no metal!!!)
If you look at the picture that siguy posted, the man is splitting the wood perpendicular to the rings in the wood (quartersawn) that is the right way to do it the wood splits effortlessly without much force. any woodworker knows that, and now so do you! hahaha
try it and you'll see the difference.
 
I only baton when removing branches (smaller) or making things (such as a split stick dead fall or a bow drill fire.

I think there is a HUGE difference in spiting and batoning.

TF
 
I baton because it's fun and effective. Also, I find it interesting that so many people find it to be knife abuse, and that adds a certain controversial attraction to the technique. ;)

All the best,

- Mike
 
I believe that 3/16 or higher thicknesses can be battoned through almost anything and Im not afraid to do it. Most of the larger knives I buy have a lifetime warranty anyway.

But, nowadays, I only need 1 knife for batoning, my SOD, and to it, battoning through WOOD is sissy work. :)

I usually carry 2 knives, a thick one for choppin, battoning (SOD or a machete), and a smaller woodcraft knife, like a mora.
 
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Batons are fun and in no way diminish ones manhood.

I think the controversy surrounding them has to do with the macho aspect of camping and wilderness.

Batoning in no way indicates gayness or femininty. Real men can baton and it is only some latent homophobia in my opinion that gives it a bad name.

:D:D:D:D

(sorry couldnt' resist)
 
Batoning is the reason I own knives larger than 4"
The makers I buy from (RAT, Becker) consider it normal use.
 
I usually rise to the occasion of trying to defend batoning on threads like these. Like others, I find it an activity that is fun to do. Another excuse to use my knife. Like making fuzz sticks. What the hell do I do with all these fuzz sticks anyway....If I made a fire for every fuzz stick I made, I'd have to take up smoking and become a chain smoker at that! Making fuzz sticks is probably abusive too. After all, do it enough and it dulls your edge.

I like the fact that when I baton, I get to use my knife. I like using my knives. I use my knives often when and whenever I can. I make up excuses just to go off and them. Sometimes this means splitting wood with my knife that can more easily be done with an axe. You see, part of my motivation is 'I want that piece of wood split' but the other part is 'I want to use my new custom blade from maker XX'. Sometimes I just want to kill to wants with one stone (or a baton :D).

I hate people labelling batoning as abusive. I hate it when folks do that because it feels like they are trying to project their opinion on my hobby and make some kind of statement about what I choose or not choose to do. The choice of the word 'abusive' has strong negative connotations that is imbued with a sense of morality or ethics. There is also the implicit understanding that 'somebody who engages in abusive activity, must be doing a foolish thing'.

Personally, I think it is foolish to buy a knife and put it in a safe hoping that 2 years from now it will be worth more money than what you bought it for. However, I don't go calling that abuse - abuse of a maker's pride perhaps.....Nope, lets keep the word abuse out of it. I batoned hundreds and hundreds of times and never damaged a blade yet. Now using your tip as a screw driver - that is something that will cause knife failure 50% of the time.

For those of you who might be interested here is an article on batoning that I wrote not to long ago.

http://www.forestandstream.com/kgd/the-skill-of-batoning
 
I find it interesting but I dont do it all the time.

It is a good testing method for home brew stuff I think, as too soft a knife can take a set going through hard knots.

As stated, it can really impress people who have never seen it before.

Last time I impressed someone while doing it... I followed up by batoning with a butterknife. It worked pretty good too, aaaaand the magic was gone.

The Froe info was very interesting Siguy... I had never heard of that before. One of those looks like it could easily be carried without the pole or mallet.
 
the froe is used to start the split. then wood or metal wedges are used to finish the split.
It is exactly the same way we do it with our knives, but in a smaller scale. and with smaller pieces of wood, a lot of times just the knife is enough to split it.
 
Since nobody else has said it I will throw this out there: Batoning is not lazy man's work. In fact, I consider it considerably harder to baton through a log than splitting it with a proper ax or maul.

That said, I enjoy batoning too and do it every time I'm out. It gives me something to do, lets me test out my gear, and has a cool factor to it as has already been stated. I have complete confidence in the knives I baton with, so am not worried about breaking them.

I think anyone who has spent enough time throwing wood in a fire will agree that rounds do not burn as hot or as thoroughly as split wood. If I want a good fire I always split my logs. Sometimes I will throw a round in before I go to bed so it will smolder all night and be easier to start in the morning.
 
I baton stuff all the time. It's a crucial skill to have in your bag of tricks, IMO. Batoning allows you to do things that are otherwise impossible for a knife to do. Batoning is NOT abuse, IMO. But one needs to know the limits of what his knife can take, and adjust his technique accordingly. You can baton, within reason, with ANY knife, if you use proper technique, and take care not to exceed the limits of the knife.

I have batoned successfully with Case Peanuts- with no damage to the knife whatsoever. You can baton with a slipjoint, if you pay attention to what you are doing. Keep basic physics in mind, and you'll be fine. The object is to use the blade of the knife as a wedge, not to use the entire knife as a lever.
 
Mentor said:
I baton because it's fun and effective. Also, I find it interesting that so many people find it to be knife abuse, and that adds a certain controversial attraction to the technique. ;)

All the best,

- Mike
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Yes, this is what I believe also. Batoning, to me, is normal use of almost all of the blades I will buy. Even Moras can be batoned if the wood isn't to big.

I also understand why some people would consider it abusive, I just don't like their logic. :p
 
I had very little outdoors experience when I first started reading W&SS and I had never heard of batonning. I read about it and tried it, and it was still a while before I heard anything about it being controversial. I do it for many of the reasons that have been listed. To me it is a very quick and easy way to split wood and get to dry wood if the outside is wet. With a 4-6" blade and a small log, it is so effortless that I can't see why someone would call it abusive. I think it's important to recognize that all tools have their limitations, which is why I prefer batonning my Walter Davis chopper over my Fiddleback Nessie (though I have done the latter and it worked great!).

(I also favor the teamwork approach)
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As a knife maker I am interested in what I need to do to insure my knives would stand up to batoning, I can see many practical application and then there is the fun of smashing a blade through something, I have alot of blades so I have smashed them through alot of stuff.

The primary object is to provide a steel, thickness, and geometry to not only stand up to batoning but to do a good job. I am sure the O1 and A2 drop points can be batoned without trouble.

I guess the bottom line is I am here to make knives to meet a persons needs.
 
I have never had any need to do it. If I had to, I would. I have always had plenty to do without inventing more.;)
 
Marion David Poff said:
Did Kephart, Nessmuk, or Rustrum do it?
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Since they all suggested people carry axes it seems unlikely. I certainly don't recall reading anything about battoning in their books. :confused:

Personally, I feel that if not outright abusive, it does put more strain on one of the most important tools in my survival kit than I care to chance. I see it strictly as an emergency measure (fire or hypothermia!) rather than a routine task (lets toast marshmellows!). That said, I don't carry around the sort of sharpened crowbars that seem popular as camping or survival knives these days, and those blades are obviously made with heavy (ab)use like battoning in mind. :p
 
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