Batoning with a knife

[Yonose]

Currently Fargo, ND. That's gonna have to change before mid-October though...

I call Southeast Louisiana home, probably heading back. If you haven't seen New Orleans, man...

I get around.

Same here; yeah Fargo's a little rough for winter. Haven't been to New Orleans in years tho

 

[91bravo]

My parents used to take my siblings and I to Baton Rouge to visit one of their friends every year. We always went to the French Quarter, Bourbon Street and my parents always told to keep our eyes forward! lol I do remember the good ass blue crab and tons of shrimp and crawfish!

 

[Standard78]

Again, batoning is all about proper wood selection (size, density, knots etc.) and proper technique (keep the knife straight, don't try cutting large pieces down the middle-work around the log, etc.). If these steps are followed, all should go well. If not, .

I'd usually agree with this if the person is using a high carbon steeled knife, but when a super steel like 3v or INFI gets involved, those rules rarely apply.
This old Survive GSO went through a bunch of seasoned oak I had sitting around and it was close to shaving sharp afterwards.
Yeah batoning through seasoned oak is somewhat foolish, but I wanted to really test the durability of the steel.
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[91bravo]

It's common sense in determining what sizes and types of wood you can baton. I've done it so much, I know already beforehand how it's going to react. Whether it splits on down completely like spruce or pine, or get all stringy and stick together like oak and hickory. I've purposely TRIED to break a few big blades batoning through wood. Even after 20 years or so of doing the taboo'd batoning, I have failed miserably... I've also heard of folder blades breaking under normal use too, and yet I've beat the snot out of some of my own folders, only to fail again miserably at breaking it like I've heard they would do. Some guys have all the luck...

 

[GB940Rookie]

I would never baton a knife through a bunch of seasoned oak, that's just crazy.

 

[d762nato]

I was up in North Dakota years ago and at the time the temperature was around 40 below zero. When I see this batoning wood thread it kind of made me curious as to what steel might stand up to this cold if one just had to break down some hard wood with out the blade just snapping off. Would a laminated type steel be better/tougher in the really cold weather?

 

[Salival]

I prefer knives, I baton through everything, up untill 10 inches with my moabolo, any wood type that I find....
Good luck break it... You'll need 2 men a vice and a long steel pipe... Will still be hard.
In a destroying test my granförsbruk will certenly die faster.
Obviously if you will split logs for hours a dedicated splitter will do a faster/better job.
Choose a tool that will help you make the job done, safely and, why not, that also please you.

 

[Pàdruig]

Like what 91bravo said earlier, to baton or not to baton is a rather old argument. I actually used to be of a mind that if you have an axe or hatchet, why is there a need to baton a knife? Why risk your knife when you have a tool that is designed to process wood? Well, I went out on a winter outing this last winter and I discovered the hard way that in cold, wet, snowy conditions, your fine motor skills can suffer rather dramatically.

Everything was covered in heavy wet snow and most of the wood we found was in some state of dampness. We got a fire going and we continued to process larger wood into smaller pieces in an attempt to dry it out some. I was using my small axe to do this instead of the large BK-9 that I had brought with me. Ultimately, as I was processing a smaller log into small sticks and due to the cold and the unwieldy nature of the axe, I hit a glancing blow and managed to slice into my hand. My, my, that created a bit of a leak....

In any case, using a knife and a baton and utilizing all of the great info that has already been provided here will provide the user with a far greater measure of control, especially in adverse conditions. Batoning through wood may be somewhat of a fad these days and it may be the measure by which many wilderness adventure enthusiasts judge their knives but I think it reasonable to remember that batoning is simply another tool, a technique that, skillfully applied, can make things safer depending on the circumstances. I still carry an axe with me because it is an immeasurably useful tool and it has its place. Plus I just like to use axes.... But if I have a knife handy (and why wouldn't I?), I will certainly be using it for the finer tasks.

 

[22-rimfire]

Yeah, you have to be careful with hatchets and axes. I cut into my foot once with a glancing blow from a tree. I didn't think there was a problem until my tennis shoe started to leak blood. (Yep, wrong footwear for chopping. ) One of the contestants on Alone had to call it quits after an axe injury. The axe is a great chopping tool, but you have to be careful. I do think batoning with a knife is probably safer overall as long as it's just for a camp fire rather than splitting wood to heat your house. As mentioned, batoning with a knife is just another skill set and one that is worth while knowing.

 

[katanas]

I agree, just don't do it if your knife is your main/only survival tool in a "way out there" scenario. It's like using your knife as the end/tip of a spear for hunting or protection (wow, look at those holes for lashing to a stick). Baaaad idea.

 

[marcinek]

And stop ridiculing someone who admits when he has done something wrong, as we all do from time to time

Yeah, you are right, I'm sure any "off topic chatting" was merely an inadvertent "one off." My apologies.

 

[marcinek]

Same here; yeah Fargo's a little rough for winter. Haven't been to New Orleans in years tho

So I take it you did some batonning in New Orleans, since batonning is the topic at hand. Do you feel the woods and climate there brought your knife any closer to its fatigue level? Seems so far the discussion has had to do with frozen and or "northern" hardwoods.

 

[Danke42]

Did you folks know you can also baton with an axe etc? If you're worried about having swing it and tagging yourself.

Not sure if there are any trees in Fargo Moorhead. Maybe some cottonheads along the Red River?

 

[Herlock]

Hi! I do baton with my camp knives sometimes . Where I am allowed and if I plan to have a camp fire going for some times, I normally carry either a small axe or a folding saw. I find these are way better to collect fire wood and then processing it: i.e. cutting the tree branches into small logs or split the big tree trunks into small logs. When it comes to get kindling from small logs or shavings from big logs, I still find the batoning practice the most effective and precise . Sure if the ground is dry, there’s no need for me to start batoning around, I get a much easier life just picking up the dry twigs and the dead tree branches which normally abound. I have regularly put my camp knives through this practice for years and never had a single issue.

 

[Dean51]

Did you folks know you can also baton with an axe etc? If you're worried about having swing it and tagging yourself.

I've never batoned with a knife but would assume you do it just like you would a hatchet.
Place hatchet on the smaller pieces and baton into it.
NEVER chop into a piece you are holding on to.

 

[22-rimfire]

I've never batoned with a knife but would assume you do it just like you would a hatchet.
Place hatchet on the smaller pieces and baton into it.
NEVER chop into a piece you are holding on to.

Yep. Got to protect the hands. Injuries suck especially those kind of injuries. You can hold the piece of wood with your hand (or use a stick) batoning if you pay attention. Not such a good idea with axes.

 

[Gaston444]

Again, batoning is all about proper wood selection (size, density, knots etc.) and proper technique (keep the knife straight, don't try cutting large pieces down the middle-work around the log, etc.). If these steps are followed, all should go well. If not, .

The problem is, if your knife is really slicy, and thus capable of versatile tasks, which for me begins at 15-17 degrees per side at the most, there is no proper batoning technique...: The edge will micro-roll no matter how thin the piece is, and how straight you strike it. Maybe a fat convex edge will mitigate this, but that is like starting with a dulled knife to begin with...

What naturally keeps the forces symmetrical to the apex, in a harder material like wood, is velocity: The initial entry into the wood "pinches" the apex, and preserves the straightness of the most fragile part on impact. Even with velocity, a micro-roll will eventually occur over time, but it will be so thin that it will wear away with further use.

With batoning the roll is bigger, more durable and more consistent, which still cuts, but is no longer parallel to you cutting motion. This increases the cutting effort considerably, even if the edge still shaves cleanly.

If it still cuts, what is the problem with batoning?

The problem is a taller rolled edge portion will be more likely to fail or chip under further hard use. It will also require far more metal removal, wearing the knife faster into a thicker edge section, which will then be harder to keep sharp with touch ups in the field.

You can't avoid very limited batoning in some small tasks: It is a legitimate technique, but like using your knife to dig into soil, or hammering it into a tree to climb on it(!), it is something you generally want to minimize or avoid.

Yeah, you have to be careful with hatchets and axes. I cut into my foot once with a glancing blow from a tree. I didn't think there was a problem until my tennis shoe started to leak blood. (Yep, wrong footwear for chopping. ) One of the contestants on Alone had to call it quits after an axe injury. The axe is a great chopping tool, but you have to be careful. I do think batoning with a knife is probably safer overall .

As is chopping with a knife? And chopping goes cross-grain, which, while less efficient than a folding saw, is much more versatile and opens far broader uses with a large knife (de-limbing/path clearing ect...)

I really can't believe the huge disproportionate emphasis on wood splitting, when most of the work will be cross-grain. In fact, the more precarious the situation, the more likely most of the work will be oriented cross-grain. A small knife (under 8-9") simply cannot be a serious cross-grain tool. Yet batoning a knife is here opposed to an axe, which is mostly a cross-grain tool, while batoning is mostly a splitting technique: This is like saying a boat is a substitute for a car...

Sure you can baton cross-grain: I've seen a video of some expert doing just that, and it was pretty comical: He explained he had trouble turning the small tree around because the small tree still had its branches: Well yeah, his tiny knife was too incapable of de-limbing to be worth the trouble, yet he was intent on demonstrating batoning all around the trunk to easily break it...

The prejudice against big knives, and especially against chopping with them, is pretty much without bounds these days... I've even heard the notion seriously proposed that a big knife like the GSO-10 was not primarily designed for chopping (to explain some questionable design choices, particularly the thin handle), but for batoning larger logs... There is literally no end to this batoning mania...

Gaston

 

[bearfacedkiller]

^

All I am saying is that I found genuine use for my outdoor knives in my entire life maybe five times...

Gaston

All I am saying is take that advice for what it's worth...

 

[22-rimfire]

.... As is chopping with a knife? And chopping goes cross-grain, which, while less efficient than a folding saw, is much more versatile and opens far broader uses with a large knife (de-limbing/path clearing ect...)

I really can't believe the huge disproportionate emphasis on wood splitting, when most of the work will be cross-grain. In fact, the more precarious the situation, the more likely most of the work will be oriented cross-grain. A small knife (under 8-9") simply cannot be a serious cross-grain tool. Yet batoning a knife is here opposed to an axe, which is mostly a cross-grain tool, while batoning is mostly a splitting technique: This is like saying a boat is a substitute for a car...

Sure you can baton cross-grain: I've seen a video of some expert doing just that, and it was pretty comical: He explained he had trouble turning the small tree around because the small tree still had its branches: Well yeah, his tiny knife was too incapable of de-limbing to be worth the trouble, yet he was intent on demonstrating batoning all around the trunk to easily break it...

The prejudice against big knives, and especially against chopping with them, is pretty much without bounds these days... I've even heard the notion seriously proposed that a big knife like the GSO-10 was not primarily designed for chopping (to explain some questionable design choices, particularly the thin handle), but for batoning larger logs... There is literally no end to this batoning mania...

I tend to agree that a thinned edge (<20 degrees) will likely roll somewhat batoning. It's a matter of degree for me. But I don't baton enough to really matter much. I however would be hesitant in a survival situation to beat the hell out of a knife batoning it when it is my only cutting tool available. The task would have to be real important to me. But I would chop with a large knife. Saying a large knife isn't made for chopping is like saying a machete is not made for chopping.

I don't know if there is any prejudice against large knives. Chopping cross grain on green wood works with a large knife; you can slant your cuts to be semi-parallel to the grain like when you de-limb. If you want square cuts, use a saw. Large knives are very cool. I just usually don't want to carry one on my belt in the woods other than to play, or for a planned task.

 

[trevitrace]

^



All I am saying is take that advice for what it's worth...

Nailed it.