Batoning

[dogwood dan]

3. I'm not discussing possibilities. The learned that in the woods cleared that up, it's why I added it, to make it clear.
6. Yes I said exactly that. Many hikers who can pack a tool that performs many tasks do so. It's not uncommon at all and extremely uncommon for people to make a reason to carry extra tools.
8. I do way more than that with it.
3. I know the mechanics behind how wood splits. That's why if I notch, I use a shallow hollow ground blade, I even have a deep hollow grind blade I use time to time, both 1095.
4. My long blade chopper is 2" shorter than a BK9 and 1/4# lighter. Go back far enough and you will see me posting it chops better than a BK9. It also has a shallow hollow grind and I know how to sharpen it.
7. That's why I carried a Glock field knife.

I don't expect anyone to do it my way. I don't expect anyone should convince me I need to carry an axe or hatchet. I don't expect anyone to do it my way. I do expect people to understand I can get the same end product without an axe. I know I can, been doing it a long time. Doesn't mean a single one of us is right. I just like hiking (light). I like a fire to cook or warm up with. I prefer to split wood with a knife I have with me and not carry an axe or hatchet. That's pretty clear how I do it. I'd love to hear how you do it on your multi night over night hikes though, so please share.

I can agree with our position and am glade to see that you are willing to make allowances for other peoples experience, it was the earlier position that only a single configuration was correct that concerned me so much. That being said I fined my self having to politely but strongly disagree with your position that a knife alone is more versatile then an ax and a knife together. I am surprised by your choice of a hollow grind for chopping I would have thought that to be a delicate. I have seen some speed axes use something similar but they seemed impractical I will have to look in to this. Do you have picture of this blade I would be interested in the proportions of the grinds.

As to my kit it depends on were I am going, as that there is no one answer to all environment. I do not have one load out for every were that I go with the exception of my 3 finger EDC that dos ego every were with me but it is not a stand alone knife. as a general rule If I am in low lands I cary a light machete and a companion knife (3-4.5" with a 3/32-1/16" thick blade) if I am in the hills I like a tomahawk and a companion knife. When hunting I will some times take a 5" blade to help with butchering, and maybe a dogwood skimmer (altho I have used my 3 finger for so long it is what I use 90% of the time). We have gone far afield at this point perhaps we should start a new thread to talk about the best blade to cary to a given terrain?

To return to batoning I will speak the bushcraft blasphemy and say I fined very little reason to use the technique. When things are wet I find that if there are 3-4" logs then there are also stick and branches. Even after days of rain if I look for example in the ley of a tree or rock or such, or for branches hung up in a tree, or branches dead but still attached I have plenty of wood to start a fire and that small fire drys larger bits of wood and I add that which makes a bigger fire that drys more wood and so on. This may not be the case in the wet north west and it was not case the rain forest were we did fined batoning in helpful. In general with the exception of joinery for making structure I fined batoning of limited use. When moving light I do not build large permeant structure and if I am setting up a base camp I bring wood working tools with me. This is why I prefer to fined a knife that cuts efficiently (I see that as the first purpose of a knife) and then chose my battening technique according to the blade I have. It seems that this thread has wondered far afield of the original question of what knife is good for batoning? I would say one with a blade that is sharp on one side and has a handle will baton just fine as with so many things it is how you use the tool, one should ask "what is the primary purpose of this tool "then look for traits that support that task knowing that if it sharp it can be pressed in to almost any cutting task.

 

[Boris74]

to politely but strongly disagree with your position that a knife alone is more versatile then an ax and a knife together.

Do you have picture of this blade I would be interested in the proportions of the grinds.

We have gone far afield at this point perhaps we should start a new thread to talk about the best blade to cary to a given terrain?

To return to batoning I will speak the bushcraft blasphemy and say I fined very little reason to use the technique. When things are wet I find that if there are 3-4" logs then there are also stick and branches. Even after days of rain if I look for example in the ley of a tree or rock or such, or for branches hung up in a tree, or branches dead but still attached I have plenty of wood to start a fire and that small fire drys larger bits of wood and I add that which makes a bigger fire that drys more wood and so on. This may not be the case in the wet north west and it was not case the rain forest were we did fined batoning in helpful. In general with the exception of joinery for making structure I fined batoning of limited use. When moving light I do not build large permeant structure and if I am setting up a base camp I bring wood working tools with me. This is why I prefer to fined a knife that cuts efficiently (I see that as the first purpose of a knife) and then chose my battening technique according to the blade I have. It seems that this thread has wondered far afield of the original question of what knife is good for batoning? I would say one with a blade that is sharp on one side and has a handle will baton just fine as with so many things it is how you use the tool, one should ask "what is the primary purpose of this tool "then look for traits that support that task knowing that if it sharp it can be pressed in to almost any cutting task.

I have never had a fire be hot enough to dry whole round branches or logs enough for them to burn. I hadn't tried it for decades and tried it this spring when I read about it again. Still didn't work, it's a sure fire way to put a fire out where I am. I need a rip roaring fire for a few hours to dry them enough and a fire that size requires a lot of split fuel. Once I get a fire going it's split it in half, toss it on. Whole branches and logs just won't burn, where I am.

I don't need a knife and an axe to get my fires up and running, I'm not heating a house. I'm carrying a tough knife already and an axe would be fluff I don't need to get what I want.

You're right on the different terrain requires different tools. I used to be good with a puukko and whatever larger blade. On 625 acres out back between me and the river I have three birch trees and a dozen pine trees. The balance is ash, oak, hickory and honey locust. When we did our last multi nighter a couple weeks ago we were far from home and it was hard to find a hard wood, there were random oak trees. Never even had to use the large blade on the pack once. The mora and Ontario falcon along with a hand saw did everything. Can't get away with that at home. Oh and an honorable mention goes to the food prep only titanium blade that's carbidized on one side. 1/16" thin and they actually do sharpen with use. I worked it until it got too blunt and literally a few swipes on a strop has it razor sharp. Use it all the time and only had to sharpen it once in 8 months. Best food prep on the trails blade I've ever seen.


Not perfectly centered photo but you can see it's a shallow hollow grind in this pic.

 

[B34NS]

I can agree with our position and am glade to see that you are willing to make allowances for other peoples experience, it was the earlier position that only a single configuration was correct that concerned me so much. That being said I fined my self having to politely but strongly disagree with your position that a knife alone is more versatile then an ax and a knife together. I am surprised by your choice of a hollow grind for chopping I would have thought that to be a delicate. I have seen some speed axes use something similar but they seemed impractical I will have to look in to this. Do you have picture of this blade I would be interested in the proportions of the grinds.

As to my kit it depends on were I am going, as that there is no one answer to all environment. I do not have one load out for every were that I go with the exception of my 3 finger EDC that dos ego every were with me but it is not a stand alone knife. as a general rule If I am in low lands I cary a light machete and a companion knife (3-4.5" with a 3/32-1/16" thick blade) if I am in the hills I like a tomahawk and a companion knife. When hunting I will some times take a 5" blade to help with butchering, and maybe a dogwood skimmer (altho I have used my 3 finger for so long it is what I use 90% of the time). We have gone far afield at this point perhaps we should start a new thread to talk about the best blade to cary to a given terrain?

To return to batoning I will speak the bushcraft blasphemy and say I fined very little reason to use the technique. When things are wet I find that if there are 3-4" logs then there are also stick and branches. Even after days of rain if I look for example in the ley of a tree or rock or such, or for branches hung up in a tree, or branches dead but still attached I have plenty of wood to start a fire and that small fire drys larger bits of wood and I add that which makes a bigger fire that drys more wood and so on. This may not be the case in the wet north west and it was not case the rain forest were we did fined batoning in helpful. In general with the exception of joinery for making structure I fined batoning of limited use. When moving light I do not build large permeant structure and if I am setting up a base camp I bring wood working tools with me. This is why I prefer to fined a knife that cuts efficiently (I see that as the first purpose of a knife) and then chose my battening technique according to the blade I have. It seems that this thread has wondered far afield of the original question of what knife is good for batoning? I would say one with a blade that is sharp on one side and has a handle will baton just fine as with so many things it is how you use the tool, one should ask "what is the primary purpose of this tool "then look for traits that support that task knowing that if it sharp it can be pressed in to almost any cutting task.

Very well said Dan.

I'm still suprised with all these responses no one has mentioned pine knots.

 

[Boris74]

Very well said Dan.

I'm still suprised with all these responses no one has mentioned pine knots.

Good source of fat wood. Everyone knows that though. I have found if I beat my blade in just above and under a dead branch then pry it out it's even better. Just cutting it flush with the hand saw is good enough if I don't have or don't feel like the extra time needed to dig out the better stuff.

A couple chunks from the last outing.



Dug out the good stuff and some cattail cotton with dry dead grass, a spark and it burned for a long time. Got a great fire going.

 

[B34NS]

oh yea, I got even lazier. That's why earlier I said I'd tend to use my axe for other wood related tasks, its easy to knock them off with the back of the axe, then flip it around and use the edge to trim some kindling. True though, being from the CA coast when not in a drought, it's a rainforest out here. I know what everyone means when they discuss why they baton. I don't think anyone's dumb for doing it, I just enjoy that we have a platform to discuss everyone's unique experiences and hopefully we can all learn a little more from each other.

Finally found the ol mears clip of him harvesting with an axe as described above. Although I've gotten by with one decent sized one from ponderosa out here from 1/2" thick branches, just shaving off a piece as needed, usually lasts about a week. When we get serious snow storms in the sierras, we'll just burn a pile of these. Natures napalm.
[video=youtube;2HcRPiD6cc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HcRPiD6cc8[/video]

 

[Boris74]

oh yea, I got even lazier. That's why earlier I said I'd tend to use my axe for other wood related tasks, its easy to knock them off with the back of the axe, then flip it around and use the edge to trim some kindling. True though, being from the CA coast when not in a drought, it's a rainforest out here. I know what everyone means when they discuss why they baton. I don't think anyone's dumb for doing it, I just enjoy that we have a platform to discuss everyone's unique experiences and hopefully we can all learn a little more from each other.

Finally found the ol mears clip of him harvesting with an axe as described above. Although I've gotten by with one decent sized one from ponderosa out here from 1/2" thick branches, just shaving off a piece as needed, usually lasts about a week. When we get serious snow storms in the sierras, we'll just burn a pile of these. Natures napalm.
[video=youtube;2HcRPiD6cc8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HcRPiD6cc8[/video]

When I go fat wood hunting as the goal, I will take an axe. On a hike I make do without it.

I hit post on accident lol. Anyway, it's a good piece of kit to have that you don't need to pack. That tree he was getting it from was so old a thick stick would have beat them out, or the spine of a heavy knife.

 

[B34NS]

When I go fat wood hunting as the goal, I will take an axe. On a hike I make do without it.

I hit post on accident lol. Anyway, it's a good piece of kit to have that you don't need to pack. That tree he was getting it from was so old a thick stick would have beat them out, or the spine of a heavy knife.

I can't argue with that! Great looking fatwood, the motherlode! :thumbup:

Haha too true, Mears, god love him, he's so british sometimes. No offense brits. I've got an upcoming elk stalking trip I'd be happy to at least grab some photos of. Out here in the west ponderosa is the traditional best next to our other pines, plus it grows everywhere out here, the coast, high altitude, even the desert. That's why I posted that GSO 10 photo, 3/16th" thick piece of 3V well HT for it's geo is pretty forgivable when employing it for jobs like this where, like you, I leave the axe at home. If I was in eastern/northwoods, I'd bugging Dan to see more of those camp hawks he's making.:foot:

My whole point, and I think a few others was that we just have a more specialized tool for the job, not requiring external leverage to effect a clean chop, or worry about lateral shearing of the blade from prying. I'm very impressed with 3V done well, thick or thin.

 

[Boris74]

I can't argue with that! Great looking fatwood, the motherlode! :thumbup:

Haha too true, Mears, god love him, he's so british sometimes. No offense brits. I've got an upcoming elk stalking trip I'd be happy to at least grab some photos of. Out here in the west ponderosa is the traditional best next to our other pines, plus it grows everywhere out here, the coast, high altitude, even the desert. That's why I posted that GSO 10 photo, 3/16th" thick piece of 3V well HT for it's geo is pretty forgivable when employing it for jobs like this where, like you, I leave the axe at home. If I was in eastern/northwoods, I'd bugging Dan to see more of those camp hawks he's making.:foot:

My whole point, and I think a few others was that we just have a more specialized tool for the job, not requiring external leverage to effect a clean chop, or worry about lateral shearing of the blade from prying. I'm very impressed with 3V done well, thick or thin.

I like that middle blade.

Here was our fire starter last trip. No need to buy wet fire



Made a cut with the hand saw, pounded in the Ontario falcon to cut it like pie and pried out our fire starter.



It was so obese I could feel it in my eyes as I shaved a small pile off to get the chunks going we used to start the fire. Smoke was black and thick lol.

Got about a years worth from various trees digging it out and that stump.