Batoning ?

K

kilroy.45

Joined
Jun 7, 2011
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I just got a Condor Hudson Bay, and I was using it to baton some fire wood, nothing massive just breaking down some 4-6 inch chunks, when a massive chip just popped out of the blade. I was wondering if batoning was considered abuse, or if I should send the knife in to condor for a replacement? Any thoughts would be helpful.
 
Your first mistake was that you batonned with your knife. Don't do that ever again and you won't have that problem any more.
 
Many makers expressly say it's OK to baton with their knives.
Many have batoned with knives and had no ill effects. A few report otherwise (maybe four here in five years).
Technique matters.
Batoning properly (for example, don't use a metal tool to hammer on the knife) is easier on a knife than chopping as there is no impact to the edge.
I would save batoning in the wild for when it's something you actually need to do.
Truly, if you don't baton, you will not damage a knife when batoning. We could apply that axiom to voting as well. ^___^
 
This is pulled directly from their web-site. I would contact them and see how they feel. Becker does not consider batoning "abuse," but some manufacturers do.


LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY Condor® tools are warranted to be free of defects in materials, manufacture or assembly for the lifetime of the original purchaser. Damage due to abuse, misuse or neglect is not covered. Defective products will be repaired, replaced or substituted with the same item or item of equal value. To get service under warranty, send the product, postage paid, to the address listed below. You may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Wooden axe handles are not warranted by Condor®, but replacement handles are available for purchase. All of the axe heads are warranted.



SATISFACTION GUARANTEED if for any reason you are not 100% happy with the performance of any of these products, simply return with postage paid to Condor® Tool & Knife, with dated proof of purchase for a full refund.
 
Contact Condor, they will take care of you. Their knives should handle batoning. I baton with my Kumunga, and even my machetes from them with no damage.
 
I would NOT consider batoning with a reasonable sized (fixed/full tang) blade as abuse. So, yes I would contact them!

As an outdoor Instructor I regularly baton and teach people how to baton frequently and I've only seen one knife fail and that was a Mora with a rat tang.
 
Contact them &/or the dealer you bought it from. They should take care of you. One mans USE, is another mans ABUSE. I baton with all my large outdoor knives. If you cant, then it is not worth having as an outdoor knife. Maybe the new one they give you should be retired to the kitchen ??? Or sold as new & buy a better one, like a Becker, ESEE, Ontario. If you want cheap with excellent function, HDness & can beat the snot outta it, it is hard to beat a Becker or Ontario SP8.
 
Looking at my Condor Hudson bay I'd say 6 inches may have been too much wood for that knife.For me the rule of thumb is to keep the wood your batoning half the length of your blade.It's worked for years for me with one exception.That was my fault as the knife wasn't equal to the task.
 
slapper said:
..."To get service under warranty, send the product, postage paid, to the address listed below."
Click to expand...

Notice there is no "address listed below". :)

That being said, from the Contact Page, I contacted Rick Jones about a prob with a different Condor, and he has been been very responsive. Will include outcome in Condor review soon.

- OS
 
savagesicslayer said:
Looking at my Condor Hudson bay I'd say 6 inches may have been too much wood for that knife.For me the rule of thumb is to keep the wood your batoning half the length of your blade.It's worked for years for me with one exception.That was my fault as the knife wasn't equal to the task.
Click to expand...

Length has nothing to do with it, edge geometry and steel have everything to do with it, but mostly just edge geometry.

I consider batoning with a knife abuse, but also something it can't hurt to learn for survival situations. The edge geometry of a good knife, usually means it is going to be brittle, especially if it encounters a knot in the wood. Simply, the design of a knife is NOT meant for those kinds of activities. If you are at home or a full campsite (not a lightweight hiking campsite) then you should have a hatchet or small axe to handle chopping chores.
 
Contact members fortytwoblades or joezilla. They can tell you who to contact for a replacement blade. Condor makes good value blades, but they do have their share of stinkers. The good thing is they ship out replacements if the customer can logically explain the problem.
 
goodeyesniper said:
Length has nothing to do with it, edge geometry and steel have everything to do with it, but mostly just edge geometry.

I consider batoning with a knife abuse, but also something it can't hurt to learn for survival situations. The edge geometry of a good knife, usually means it is going to be brittle, especially if it encounters a knot in the wood. Simply, the design of a knife is NOT meant for those kinds of activities. If you are at home or a full campsite (not a lightweight hiking campsite) then you should have a hatchet or small axe to handle chopping chores.
Click to expand...

Or a medium/heavy machete with a convexed chopping section and a sharper, more delicate geometry towards the handle. :D
 
from the condor website there's a contact email - send them pictures of the blade with the chip and tell them what you were doing -- they'll take care of you.
 
Just spoke to their sales manager, all I need to do is send him a picture of the blade and my shipping address, and I can get my new blade.
 
I'm glad I've seen this thread, a manufacturer that stands behind their products is refreshing. I have been looking at some of their products lately, and I believe I'll give them a shot now.
 
goodeyesniper said:
Length has nothing to do with it, edge geometry and steel have everything to do with it, but mostly just edge geometry.

I consider batoning with a knife abuse, but also something it can't hurt to learn for survival situations. The edge geometry of a good knife, usually means it is going to be brittle, especially if it encounters a knot in the wood. Simply, the design of a knife is NOT meant for those kinds of activities. If you are at home or a full campsite (not a lightweight hiking campsite) then you should have a hatchet or small axe to handle chopping chores.
Click to expand...

Pardon if this is obvious.

As compared to a knife, an axe is heat-treated to be less hard and more tough because it is purpose-made to be an impact tool. The steel is also selected with toughness in mind. A grown man can generate a lot of stress slamming a tool into wood.

Some knives have convex edges like a properly-shaped splitting or general-purpose axe. That geometry puts more steel behind the edge to reduce the chances of damage to the edge.

A hollow-ground knife is at the other extreme - less steel behind the edge. I foolishly used such a knife once to point a stick for a tent peg. It was a very hard knife, and I took a big chick out of the edge. 0___0 (Also, a hollow-ground blade tends to stick when going into relatively thick material, which is why my GB SFA, while a great cutter, is a poor splitter. And I keep it away from Southern Yellow Pine.)

Unlike chopping, batoning is not an impact use of a tool. The edge is against the material at the start. That produces less stress than encountering a knot when whittling. Still, the knots are a threat.

In a "survival" situation I would use batoning only if necessary - and even then very carefully and slowly. In fact, I would be as careful as possible in all things, the situation being "bad" by definition. And I would do my best not to have a hollow-ground knife.
 
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