Battle Grade Questions. Is INFI worth it?

Rockspyder, thanks. What were you using to do the grinding and had it been freshly lapped if applicable...would you approximate pressure applied?

Also, did each Rmd have similar edge geometry and thickness? Just trying to confirm some suspicions.
 
I'd say infi is worth it at least to check it out. The last three two week offerings I ordered were SR101 basically because the knives were half the price as their infi counterpart. I have some great infi knives but at the moment I'd rather grab the bg knives and grab a bigger variety.
 
Maggot Brain said:
Rockspyder, thanks. What were you using to do the grinding and had it been freshly lapped if applicable...would you approximate pressure applied?

Also, did each Rmd have similar edge geometry and thickness? Just trying to confirm some suspicions.
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The RMD and the INFImandu I got from you were both thinned with a carborundum stone, which is what I have the most experience with, and the stone I said the steels felt differently while thinning. I actually like the INFImandu, so much I have bought a second one off the exchange now, practically identical to the one I got from you. Both are users, so I immediately started thinning the shoulders on the second one, but this time with a Smith diamond-impregnated hone. Not very expensive, so probably not the best quality. I didn't see much difference in how quickly the diamond did compared to the carborundum stone. It isn't what I usually use, but I'm on det now, and I used what I could get. I eventually got it, but I don't have a good comparison on diamond with SR-101.

To the best of my ability to tell, all three started out with obtuse edge grinds, and relatively thick behind the edge. I can't give you measurements, though. They just all looked the same to me. Definitely different from a SWATmandu edge bevel. Well, the one unused sample I have in hand.

So, it is obvious I have nothing AGAINST INFI. Just not sure it gives me a lot more than better corrosion resistance, IN THE SIZE BLADE OF THE 'MANDU KIN.
 
Cobalt said:
There would be no comparison there. SR101 could never match INFI's toughness. Having said that INFI is tougher than most would ever need, thus, SR101 will do everything needed and no one would know the difference. Busse no longer differentially HT's their knives ,and there must be a reason for that. Really, the one place where SR101 takes a huge back seat is in corrosion resistance. SR101/52100 is a steel that does rust fairly easily. But if you take care of your equipment, there should be no problem. For the money, I don't think you can beat SR101. INFI is expensive. INFI's heat treat is longer but that is probably because it's chemical composition requires more to it. SR101 being a simpler steel probably requires less of a heat treat. This does not mean that it is any less of an HT.
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I thought they still differential heat treated? Why do you say that there'd be an observable major difference in destruction tests?
 
If the Infi felt glassy as though the grit did not want to cut the steel on the carborundum stone, this would likely point to lower grindability if applying the same force over similar contact areas comparatively. It is also possible that you are just noticing worn grit or loading of swarf on the stone also. Does the stone release abrasive freely or just wear smooth over time?

Te main thing that jumps out to me is Infi has far more chromium, much of which should go towards forming carbides... making much harder to grind. My experiences lead me to believe Infi may have lower grindability, yet I also believe sr-101 to be very difficult to grind.
 
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Maggot Brain said:
If the Infi felt glassy as though the grit did not want to cut the steel on the carborundum stone, this would likely point to lower grindability if applying the same force over similar contact areas comparatively. It is also possible that you are just noticing worn grit or loading of swarf on the stone also. Does the stone release abrasive freely or just wear smooth over time?

Te main thing that jumps out to me is Infi has far more chromium, much of which should go towards forming carbides... making much harder to grind. My experiences lead me to believe Infi may have lower grindability, yet I also believe sr-101 to be very difficult to grind.
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This particular stone does release freely. Most of the time I can tap it on the table and get a ton of stuff out of it. Plus, I rinse it at the end of each session. It doesn't get smooth. It just loads up, so you start to get the swarf(?) starting to call off the sides and make a bit of a mess. So I tap it, to get that in one spot, then continue. I do not oil my stones, nor use water on them while grinding. I've tried, with similar stones, and it was a disaster. I think I just grew them away.

Doesn't a steel have to have carbon to form the carbides? Whether they are chromium carbides, vanadium carbides, or tungsten carbides? I thought they all needed carbides, and if you had vanadium or tungsten in the mix, they had a greater affinity with the carbon, so they would form the carbides, leaving the chromium to do its thing with corrosion resistance.

I'm not a metallurgist, though, and it has been a long time since my materials classes. So I am probably wrong.
 
ALLHSS said:
I thought they still differential heat treated? Why do you say that there'd be an observable major difference in destruction tests?
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From my understanding SR101 is no longer diff HT.


Why would you ever think that SR101 could match INFI. If it could Busse would use it on everything over INFI and just stop putting out INFI. I think that it is hard to beat SR101 for value to toughness.

How do I know? because I have abused both. People say that SR101's edge holding is better. And that may be true on soft materials. The minute you take it to hard materials, INFI's edge is much more stable and takes less damage. I can use both steels and hit very hard materials and SR101's edge takes more damage. Plain fact. Certainly not saying that SR101 isn't tough, but it will not take the damage INFI will. There has been a few broken 1311's. Not to say that it cannot happen to INFI but you certainly will need to go much further to get that failure.
 
Cobalt said:
From my understanding SR101 is no longer diff HT.
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Correct. It has been some years since there have been any DHT blades released. The SR101 coming from the Swamp is through-hardened, as I image these Battle Grade versions in operation two weeks are as well.
 
Cobalt said:
From my understanding SR101 is no longer diff HT.


Why would you ever think that SR101 could match INFI. If it could Busse would use it on everything over INFI and just stop putting out INFI. I think that it is hard to beat SR101 for value to toughness.

How do I know? because I have abused both. People say that SR101's edge holding is better. And that may be true on soft materials. The minute you take it to hard materials, INFI's edge is much more stable and takes less damage. I can use both steels and hit very hard materials and SR101's edge takes more damage. Plain fact. Certainly not saying that SR101 isn't tough, but it will not take the damage INFI will. There has been a few broken 1311's. Not to say that it cannot happen to INFI but you certainly will need to go much further to get that failure.
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Oh ok. I thought it still was, specifically on the American Regulator.

I was just asking because I haven't destruction tested either, I wasn't suggesting they were matching in strength.

EDIT: I meant to say I was not suggesting they had equal strength characteristics.
 
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ALLHSS said:
Oh ok. I thought it still was, specifically on the American Regulator.

I was just asking because I haven't destruction tested either, I was suggesting they were matching in strength.
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OF course, that is what I remember from the forums. I cannot say for fact that Busse no longer differetially HT's, but that is what I remember. I guess if I strip my 911 I will know. My M9 had a temper line from the diff HT. The new stuff should not. So it would not be that hard to tell. Maybe I will strip my 911.
 



Cobalt said:
From my understanding SR101 is no longer diff HT.


Why would you ever think that SR101 could match INFI. If it could Busse would use it on everything over INFI and just stop putting out INFI. I think that it is hard to beat SR101 for value to toughness.

How do I know? because I have abused both. People say that SR101's edge holding is better. And that may be true on soft materials. The minute you take it to hard materials, INFI's edge is much more stable and takes less damage. I can use both steels and hit very hard materials and SR101's edge takes more damage. Plain fact. Certainly not saying that SR101 isn't tough, but it will not take the damage INFI will. There has been a few broken 1311's. Not to say that it cannot happen to INFI but you certainly will need to go much further to get that failure.
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Okay thank you so much guys. I think I'll keep perusing the exchange and if I grab anything in the near future I'll chuck it on here! I appreciate all the feedback. I'm leaning towards trying out a TGBG with the hopes that it will lead me to a TGLB in the future.

Thanks so much again!

Alacrity
 
Alacrity said:
Okay thank you so much guys. I think I'll keep perusing the exchange and if I grab anything in the near future I'll chuck it on here! I appreciate all the feedback. I'm leaning towards trying out a TGBG with the hopes that it will lead me to a TGLB in the future.

Thanks so much again!

Alacrity
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The only reason I personally would take a TGLB over a BGTG is the shallow, high-hollow grind. I prefer hollow-ground blades, provided they are a pretty shallow hollow grind. I think the grind on the TGLB is so shallow it might not even be quickly apparent. But other than that, I am extremely pleased with my BGTG, although so far, it hasn't gotten a workout. Just knocked the shoulders off the edge and touched it up, so it will shave now. No great, but it will shave.
 
Cobalt said:
My coated swamp rat had the edge rusting after one use and I did not wipe it clean. Trust me SR101 is no different than 52100 in that department and about the same as 1095. But if you take care of your stuff, it should not matter.
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Well clearly other members of the forum are having different experiences than you are.
 
Cobalt said:
My coated swamp rat had the edge rusting after one use and I did not wipe it clean. Trust me SR101 is no different than 52100 in that department and about the same as 1095. But if you take care of your stuff, it should not matter.
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I haven't had anywhere near that experience, but I think climate and particular uses have a pronounced affect on corrosion resistance.
 
It would appear, that Opinions do vary!

Given that you have gone through a certain amount of Busse knives in the past and still the question remains for you, I might suggest any of the original Basics, #3/#5/#7 or #9, if any of these can suit your use as a knife, Then Measure all else by the experience with the Basics. Still pretty readily available and still generally underpriced compared to most Older Busse knives.

I (having purchased my choppers some 16 years ago) only buy the occasional smaller, usually thinner Infi knives, a Thin NICK, a few Boney Active Dutys, one Anorexic Badger, I like Culties, most of these I buy as gifts for my loved ones.

But, unless you have an early INFI/Modified INFI to compare with, It is my opinion that you are cheating yourself out of Valuable Experience.

The Early knives, asymmetrically ground, the factory edge quite coarse and toothy, but still hella sharp and so easy to bring back to sharp with nothing more than a Crock stick, These older knives are what to compare to today for working knives.

Can not tell the difference in use? try the old knives.

Stay with the coarse asymmetrical grinds, compare then with the more recent knives, use over time in a specific task, do not dress the edge at the first sign of not perfectly sharp, see which continues in use with clean dry materials, wood, leather,rope, flesh, and then ease of bringing the edge back with a Crockstick,this is where INFI is better, if you desire to cut rebar or cement blocks, or Sod the Busse Kin are certainly built for that kind of abuse.
 
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