Battle Mistresses in combat

quite true. Desert situation demands different equipment. But do not discount the need of larger tools in different environments. Hence what I stated in my post which is now in bold so you can read it.
cutting the the top off of bouncy your avatar ,LOL :D
 
There is a lot of dense brush area around the rivers in Iraq. Personally, I would prefer something along the lines of a Camp Tramp for general knife uses, but I wouldn't discount something such as a Battle Mistress for certain environments.
 
I think I remember an old-time hog on here who carried a ZTBM in his kit. I can't remember who it was, though.

Rick
 
Maybe I could interject some of my limited experience. I have served 3, one year tours. One in Afghanistan, and 2 in Iraq with the 2/325 82nd Airborne. In Afghanistan as well as in OIF 1, I saw some guys carring a pretty crazy aray of edged stuff. Hell I even saw a guy conducting raids in Balad with a sword on his back. I came back for OIF 3, and lets just say that the political environment had changed. Every officer had a hard on yelling at a guy with something out of the ordinary. Our company put out that no fixed blades over 7 inches would be authorized to be carried on personal equipment (with the exception of bayonets). I did then and now carry a satin Jack on my web gear as my general purpose knife.

Now out of a line unit and a Staff Sergeant I tend to be becoming sort of a scrouge with my men and their big knives. Frankly in the desert I don't find a whole lot of use for them. If their breaching a door, there are better tools. If their conducting some sort of emergency close quarters edge weapon combat, then it was my fault that they weren't trained correctly in how to use and retain their rifle, and that they would be in a situation where they were at such a tactical disadvantage.

With body armor, shoulder kev and side plates, a rifle, a combat load of ammo, water, and personal equipment, I have seen a many man fall out from heat exhaustion, nearing stroke. Frankly in area's where heat is so sever, I have enough to worry about taking care of my men, and insuring their training is top notch. Obviously I love knives. They are amazing tools, but limited. Especially in this environment. Just my humble opinion and my .02
 
Maybe I could interject some of my limited experience. I have served 3, one year tours. One in Afghanistan, and 2 in Iraq with the 2/325 82nd Airborne. In Afghanistan as well as in OIF 1, I saw some guys carring a pretty crazy aray of edged stuff. Hell I even saw a guy conducting raids in Balad with a sword on his back. I came back for OIF 3, and lets just say that the political environment had changed. Every officer had a hard on yelling at a guy with something out of the ordinary. Our company put out that no fixed blades over 7 inches would be authorized to be carried on personal equipment (with the exception of bayonets). I did then and now carry a satin Jack on my web gear as my general purpose knife.

Now out of a line unit and a Staff Sergeant I tend to be becoming sort of a scrouge with my men and their big knives. Frankly in the desert I don't find a whole lot of use for them. If their breaching a door, there are better tools. If their conducting some sort of emergency close quarters edge weapon combat, then it was my fault that they weren't trained correctly in how to use and retain their rifle, and that they would be in a situation where they were at such a tactical disadvantage.

With body armor, shoulder kev and side plates, a rifle, a combat load of ammo, water, and personal equipment, I have seen a many man fall out from heat exhaustion, nearing stroke. Frankly in area's where heat is so sever, I have enough to worry about taking care of my men, and insuring their training is top notch. Obviously I love knives. They are amazing tools, but limited. Especially in this environment. Just my humble opinion and my .02


quite true. And in Iraq, you would probably be better off with a folding shovel and a small knife or multi tool. In the desert I never carried anything more than a 4 inch blade. But when you go into the woods, something large almost becomes necessary, whether it be a hawk, hatchet, large knife or machette.

I remember Jerry making runs of SHBM's for some special mil groups (90's) and I know he has supplied other spec ops groups with large blades as well. The blades were never meant for fighting, they were meant as tools. But I agree that the regular soldier has to worry about 120 lbs of equipment should normally go light on blades unless, again going into a wooded environment.
 
You'll notice that the original poster never specified that he was only interested in FBM's in Iraq or Afghanistan. There are soldiers in South America conducting counter-narcotics operations. Soldiers go to Thailand for training exercises. A FBM would be quite handy in these environments.

There is something to be said for the intimidation factor of someone running at you and swinging a 10 inch blade around. If your rifle has a malfunction that can't be corrected through immediate action, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad strategy. Ideally, another soldier would pick up your field of fire, but who knows? It reminds me of Captain Jack Churchill, who carried a bow, arrows, a claymore, and bagpipes into battle in WW2.

Fieldtestornothing, are you still with the 82nd or did you escape Bragg? I'm current with HHC Div in Afghanistan. I'm sure we'll invite the falcons along soon enough. You're not kidding about the dangers of heat stroke. I suffered one a couple years ago and it probably should have put me out of the Army, if not for my NCO's "walk it off" mentality. However, I've had to carry Army junk that was far less useful than a good knife, and I'd sooner leave some of that behind. Hydration is really the key. You can carry immense amounts of weight as long as you keep drinking water and rest when you need to. The Army has gotten much smarter about this stuff lately. The main thing that gets you is the IBA, simply because it is so stifling.
 
Cynic:

I did escape Bragg and in fact was recalled for my third tour with a guard unit. Although it was a interesting experience it was a lot different from being with a line unit. I had a great time though and enjoyed the differences they had to offer.

I agreee that a large blade is incredibly useful as a tool in the outdoors. I didn't mean to degrade that in the least. I carry and use a HI blade or a FBM in the outdoors all the time.

I am no master knife fighter. In fact I would go so far to say that really I know next to nothing about it. I would surmise that most troops in the Army would be close to the same. I wish the Army would integrate knife training into their training program as the marine's has maintained for 50 years. True if my rifle were to go down and I had to fight hand to hand, honestly I would either use my rifle as a striking instrument, or I would mount a bayonet if I had time. If not I would draw my SATJ and try to carve somebody up until they looked like my last turkey. But you know as well as I do that Haj with an AK is bad juju for close quarters.

The Army sure does issue a lot of worthless crap though. No one can argue that. I too had two instances where I was in a vehicle having conducted a 18 hour mission back to back for weeks and my vision started swimming and I passed out for a time. I woke and had my buddy give me an IV when we got back and reassured myself that I needed to drink more water. It happens. Thanks for all your service and such a great community where we can all share our opinions.

A Cynic, good luck over there. Hey I hear that IED's are getting big over there right now, as well as mortar attacks. Could you give me a little intel? What types of things are you experiencing?
 
I would like to see a soldier protecting a convoy with an American Kensei against a horde of malicious desert dwelling peoples. Actually, I'd prefer zombies, but we'll just have to wait and see if those pop up in the near future.
 
I'm no knife fighter either. Truth be told, the only times I've visually verified that our unit actually has bayonets have been during pass and review during All American Week. I doubt we even brought any with us on this deployment. Muzzle thumping is a preferred choice for many, but I would be worried about the sling getting in the way and coming up short. I have no idea what I would do in the situation though as I've never had to face it.

I was only in Division a few weeks and new to the humidity of Fort Bragg summer when they informed me that we would be testing for EIB and the first order of business was a 12 mile road march. I was ill-prepared to say the least.
 
Just my .02.CarriedSHBM or a Nuke Heart on 4 different continents while in the military. Central Amer. and woodland areas are perfect for my SHBM while the middle east was perfect for the Nuke. I've also sent a SJTAC overseas to be used by a fellow grunt and it came back with high marks. Do P.O.G.'s need to have much more than a small fixed blade? Probably not but for the grunts I got used to the "extra" weight pretty quick. Just my opinion but it's based on MY experience so your mileage may vary.

Bob Mills
 
.... But if your going to carry a 11 inch OAL knife, 3-4 more inches isn't that much more. I frankly don't see the need for the inbetween knives. Either very small or very large is ideal. If I can carry an 11 inch knife, I can carry a 15 inch knife. Otherwise I will carry a scraper 4 or such.

Oh CRAP!!!! :eek: :eek: I agree with him again!!


 
Interesting opinions all. I'm glad to be able to converse with such experienced people. Experiences will definately be different that is for sure. However, having two brothers who are Marines at Palms, I can say that there are differences between grunts who go into battle in armored vehicles and grunts who jump out of planes. I joined the army because I wanted to jump out of planes period. During several exercises where we were jumping with a full load. We were told that we had to keep all of our personal gear to a maximum of 5lbs. That includes pogey bait, additional snivel gear, knives, ect.... It definately puts a damper on the 3lb HI's in my opinion. I'm sure other division jumpers will have similiar experiences.

In Iraq having a large fixed blade in a vehicle could be advantagous if the conditions were right. Although if you had conducted your PMCS you shouldn't be going anywhere without your vehicle BII. Which includes a 2-3lb axe. My tool of choice for breaching next to a shotgun. Frankly it took me a long time to understand the need for mobility in troops. Now I work as a federal agent. I wear class IIB body armor and sometimes feel naked without those good ol plates. However I can run a 5 minute mile with this armor, and wouldn't even try with my Interceptor. I liken this to carring unnecessary gear, depending on the circumstances. I totally agree that large knives serve a great purpose. But if it makes the difference between falling out, or not being able to get to cover fast enough, then frankly I am an opponent.

Sorry I think I kind of stole this thread. Maybe I can go find some pics of me with my Satin Jack on, in Iraq and we can get back on topic!
 
Not sure what this has to do with knife fighting. I think we can all agree that if it comes down to a knife fight, someone somewhere made some bad command decisions.

IMO Combat knives are more of a do it all type of blade.

This discussion reminds me of a Rifle discussion some friends of mine had a long tme back. They were talking about hunting deer and they had set a date. Well, one had a 243 winchester, another two had 270's and the third had a 300 winchester magum.

The guys with the smaller rounds asked the other guy why he had brought that rifle. The other guy answered, what you don't think it can take the deer. The other three laughed and said sure it can but it is sheer overkill.

Then the other guy answered, well I have only one rifle and I can take elk with it as well, out to 700 yards. If I want to go elsewhere and hunt larger game, I can, you can't. Hard to argue with that. It may have been overkill for deer, but definitely not for elk and moose and he only had to carry one rifle.
 
I've got no military experience to speak of but the basic decision being discussed is pretty much the same as climbers, etc., make all the time. I always try to make sure the last thing I add to my load is more valuable than any other alternative. So maybe asking whether a FBM or HI is a better choice than x more rounds of .223 (or whatever else) would be worth thinking about.
 
Good point. In fact, in all the videos of forced entries in the Iraq theater that I've studied the tool of choice seems to be the BOOT! In urban theater I would think that traditional entry tools have far greater value than long heavy knives.I've heard that folding shovels are top choice too.Maybe if we have to visit N. Korea, these long blades might be more useful!
yes there is alot of jungle to chop through in Iraq :eek:
 
Hey, I said anywhere outside conus!

I don't really care to argue a contest of practicality, I was just hoping for a couple pictures! I know that some people carry some impractical crap overseas, a lot of the crap you might see hanging off of an over zealous MP or some poor guy kitted up so that he looks like the Michelin man seems a lot worse than something like a BM.

What about cool factor? I mean, every soldier has a knife or leatherman of some sort, or they'll buy one from some PX halfway through their deployment.
I know it doesn't suit everyone's needs, but I think if you approach carrying something like a BM practically and it works for you, by all means do so. I'm a big fan of 80s movies, and I'd like here of a few more eccentric soldiers.
Sure, a small knife is a lot more suited for some sort of split-second transitional defense, or a small, tedious task.
But as for me, if I were in an situation crappy and hopeless enough to where I had to sit down and make a cognitive effort to try and plan out a defensive posture with a knife, I wouldn't mind going out like a madman swinging around a big chopper in the name of shameless flamboyance, bourbon whiskey, and all the beautiful women that make America great.
 
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