Battle Rat block chop,could most knives do it and survive?

[Cliff Stamp]

i meant to imply that because swamp rat knives are capable of taking that kind of use, they are good for people who misuse knives.

Sure, but not all work which requires such a profile is misuse.

swamp rat knives are good for newbies (because they are strong and can take the abuse while the person learns how to use the knife without inadvertantly damaging it)

As you get more experience you can make due with a smaller cross section of blade, generally you do this by changing method, in most cases this however lowers efficiency.

For example take a newbie and ask him to clear some hard branches from a low light tree. He will likely take the knife and attempt to sweep the branches off. This is one of the hardest things you can do with a knife.

The newbie will do this pretty much irregardless of the knife because he doesn't know how difficult it is and thus will break a large amount of knives in doing so.

Someone more expereinced will check his knife for the necessary cross section and if it isn't there either try to cut the branches off individually taking care to avoid lateral stress, or break them off with the spine or a stout stick.

However, if the experienced woodsman does have a knife which can do it, he will do it, and sweeping them off is many times over more efficient than beating them off.

It simply allows a wider scope of work. Good for people who just like to poke and prod with no real point, sure, but sometimes these things have a point.

-Cliff

 

[Josh Muller]

Sure, but not all work which requires such a profile is misuse.
-Cliff

let me rephrase again - i beleive the misuse of a blade to be as such:
when a person uses a knife in a task that can damage the knife having both no idea of what damages may be accured, and possibly causing themselves injury in the process.

if you understand what your doing, it is a test of the blades limits, and you are using a tool for a given task, even if its not capable of handleing it, such as using the tip as a screwdriver. if you need a scredriver and dont have one, i dont consider it a misuse of the knife (likewise i understand that you can make a knife with a geometry that is well suited for that task, and the knife would then be designed to and ready to handle it). but if your doing it while you have a screwdriver next to you, then its pointless to use the knife in its place.


i understand that this idea is does not compare readily with the common use of the word "misuse" or "abuse" when used on these forums, but i was trying to keep the economy of my posts to a minimum so people could read them without getting bogged down by excessive sentence length etc


but i do understand why youd call me on these points as it relates to this thread. essentially, there are purposes for larger, thicker, and more obtuse edge and knife geometries, and thin knives are not the only blades that should be given the title of "knife" nor are they the only ones that have use in the world, as there are many tasks in wich a thin profile will be nearly useless given a certain type of steal, as it will both fail immediately, or simply will not have the weight required to perform the task easily without undesired accomodations to make it work.


but i still stand by what i said, in relations to the line "Let's just say I'm tired of the happy horse sh*t where every newbie gets recommended a Swamp Rat." - swamp rat knives are good for people who do not know the limits of their knives, and will end up using them in an abuseive manner (doing things that will break them, but have no goal in mind (being unaware) - be it for the given task, or for the knowledge of what the knife is capable of), as they are designed to be able to take heavy use without major damage. this doesnt not mean that they are not also good for people who know what they are doing with the knives, just that they are also good for people who dont, and its reasonable that they get recommended so much.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...that they are also good for people who dont

Yes, I agree with that fully. They are a solid starting point as they are fairly economical with a decent resale value, and no real gross weak points. As a first blade they would give a user an excellent experience base from which to refine their future purchases if necessary, without risking a lot of money in the process, or injury to themself, Spyderco FRN's are another such example.

-Cliff

 

[Stone Knife]

While impressive that test is about as valid as using a gun to hammer nails and then see if it can still shoot. I cant think of a scenario where a person is going to need to use a knife for that purpose and if they do they are likely to not care what condition the knife is in when they are done and would likely discard the knife.

Yes! Although interesting reading, the day I start chopping blocks with my 3V Nkonka you can just take me to the Ha Ha Hotel and don't pass "go".

Seems like for work like this, an inexpensive Standard 18” Ontario machete' sharpened up as Jerry Hossum has outlined in his excellent article Sharpening the Ontario and call 'er a beater! The idea of using $100 plus knives to cut up lumber and clear brush...??? Get a saw and a Machete'!

Git down that COmbat Commander, Ma, I gotta drive some spikes!

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The idea of using $100 plus knives to cut up lumber and clear brush...???

This is what long blades like parangs, goloks, etc., are designed to do, they work much better for it than saws, and better than machetes on the harder woods, mainly a vibration/sticking issue.

The current long blades of this style like the Rat Daddy are designed to essentially be short parangs and trade off the raw chopping power of the 16-18" blades for the ability to be used as a knife.

As for cheaper blades, why would you expect a cheaper blade to give you better performance. The whole reason you spend more money is to give you a better tool, not a worse one.

I have seen two Ontario machetes take huge blowouts cutting hardwoods, you won't see that with a Battle Rat, or better yet the new Rat Daddy. This is mainly an Ontario issue though, Martindale makes solid wood working blades.

They generally run the edges a lot softer though so you don't get the same edge retention, but they are easier to file. The biggest disadvantage is that due to the lack of a primary grind machetes wedge in woods, and yes I have re-edged them, this doesn't solve the problem.

-Cliff

 

[SilverFoxKnows]

making this the thread that wont die...I used to wonder at relevance of chopping concrete blocks and oil drums and what-not. But the more I think about it the more I can see the point of the demonstration. While trimming back the ivy on the fence I have hit chunks of concrete. Mangled the edge but since I was using a $6 Tramontina I didn't really care. While taking down some old fence posts I unknowingly chopped through some big old nails. But I was using a khukuri and the damage to the edge was minimal. So yes, I use a $100 knife to bust up lumber and clear brush. Would the big HI survive a concrete block? Probably, not that I'm anxious to try.

Frank

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

In support of the Battle Rat, I wanted to say that I was splitting some slab wood, and I hit the edge on a stone. It didnt chip or even roll, a barely noticable ding. Compare that to what the impact like that does to a cheap knife.- it would be ruined. The toughness ensures that I wont be afraid to use the knife for any chopping task- I have total confidence in the quality.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Yeah, using knives in those situations tend to generate those impacts. They come up fairly frequently on the HI forum as those guys tend to really use thier knives. Of course not every knife needs to be able to handle such an impact, but a large chopping knife should not be grossly damaged by it.

-Cliff