Be honest, what will a spark net you?

FCFER said:
My first post!

I've done the mountainman reinactment for 20+ years now and became something of a stickler on firemaking. If it wasnt done with flint and steel, it wasnt burning in my camp! That was fine when it was just the guys and I. I now have a wife and two daughters. We went camping a couple years ago and arrived in a cold down pour. I had to get a fire going to keep the kiddies warm while we setup and realized how much time it took to prepare a fire in the rain with flint and steel. After my initial panic (the girls were getting cold), i remembered I had a BIC rolling around in the glove box. I fished it out and had a cheery fire burning in a few minutes. After that, I make sure to carry a few, stashed in various gear. I may be willing to get cold myself, but found i was unwilling to let the kids get too cold while waiting for me to get the fire going.

Lesson Learned!
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Welcome to WSS! Excellent point!

Carrying tinder (or a lighter) is survival preparation, not "bushcraft." Practicing primitive firestarting skills and using natural tinder is important, but there are times you really need a fire, and holding true to some idea of "mountain man purity" is plain stupid. And besides, having the lighter in your pocket doesn't mean you have to use it.

In that light, I think carrying implements or materials for primitive firemaking as emregency gear is foolish. Go ahead and carry tinder cloth and a bow drill set to practice with, but have something more reliable and emergency-proof on hand just in case.

I carry a firesteel not because it is primitive or survivor-chic. It is a bulletproof spark generator and other means I have with me may fail. I carry tinder with me not because I can't make fire using found tinder, but because I may need a fire in conditions or circumstances found tinder may fail or I am unable to gather it. There are times when everything is wet, the wind is blowing, your go-to charcloth and fatwood won't ignite. That is NOT the time to play bushcraft.
 
FCFER said:
My first post!

I've done the mountainman reinactment for 20+ years now and became something of a stickler on firemaking. If it wasnt done with flint and steel, it wasnt burning in my camp! That was fine when it was just the guys and I. I now have a wife and two daughters. We went camping a couple years ago and arrived in a cold down pour. I had to get a fire going to keep the kiddies warm while we setup and realized how much time it took to prepare a fire in the rain with flint and steel. After my initial panic (the girls were getting cold), i remembered I had a BIC rolling around in the glove box. I fished it out and had a cheery fire burning in a few minutes. After that, I make sure to carry a few, stashed in various gear. I may be willing to get cold myself, but found i was unwilling to let the kids get too cold while waiting for me to get the fire going.

Lesson Learned!
Click to expand...

Good post. It was a cold wet camping trip with my present wife when we were still just dating and my oldest daughter out on Edwards Point while the remains of Katrina wreaked havoc. In hindsight we shouldn't have gone considering the weather and wind but we had that trip planned for weeks and had the time then and wouldn't for a while to come after. It rained on us all the way to the little cabin and then the winds really picked up. I was in familiar territory only 4 miles from the parking lot. The only fire starting tools I had on me were a mag stick, a bic lighter, and an issue pilot's survival knife. There was fatwood around I knew but the wind was taking down pine trees from 5 inches in diameter up to 18 inches and they were dropping like flies all around us, so finding a good bit of fatwood in the darkness was interesting. The knife got it's best work out ever, and my skills and determination got a good one as well. There were a few lessons learned that trip, but the cool part is that Lisa was really impressed with my abilities...I on the other hand was more impressed by my stupidity, and distractibility...
 
tonym said:
Hell, you can get a flame with shavings of almost any dry wood as long as your shavings are fine enough... I think we should all know how to get fire with natural materials. I also think everyone should learn friction fire methods. But lets face it; If I went back in to time and gave them old mountain men a nice bic lighter and container of PJCB's, I would be 1 popular SOB.... :D
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Umm, what he said.

I love to get fire with no materials other then natural, but when I want a fire, and the best chances of getting it, that PJCB will be the thing I use. I have failed on a few attempts at fatwood shaving when it was wet out. The PJCB worked great though.
 
With starting a fire via spark, you have to be meticulous about everything, from the ground you're starting the fire on to the moisture content of the tinder to the wind exposure... it's like learning how to ride a bike kind of. You can try and try and try and finally get it, and the more you do it the more consistant you are-especially when it comes to placement and prep of the fire. That's not to say once you're consistant you'll never have a hard time-sometimes it gets tricky even when conditions seem perfect.
 
Iz, nice vids brother, as always, well done, very informative, and some rockin' azz music.

When I was rock climbing, there was guy who I always saw out on the rocks. This guy climbe 5.10-5.11a in sandals. Best climber I ever saw in person, by far. Cool as a person can get. I was just starting out, and lacked any technique, per say, I was just climbing. I was struggling on this 5.10 route (way outta my league at the time), and I was clawing and scrambling to get to the top. I made it.

When I got down, I kinda held my head in shame, because John (the guy) had been watching me the whole time. I said, "I used my knees alot on that one,huh, kinda sucked I guess". John looked at me and said something I'll never forget, and changed my way of looking at alot of things.

"Rock climbing is about getting to the top. You got to the top, and that's what its all about. Technique and style comes with experience, and only time can give you that. You got to the top, didn't ya?"

We can debate the whole process of starting a fire, this way, that way, bushcraft or bics, friction or steel, fatwood or Cotton Balls. The idea is to GET A FIRE started.

Use whatever method you wish, to get your wood cookin'. But make sure you got a GUARANTEED backup. Its alot easier to figure out why your bowdrill didn't work, while sitting next to a nice warm fire.

Just sayin'. Moose
 
While there are many ways to get a fire started, and like Moose said, "The idea is to GET A FIRE started" we must learn the basics first.

I can't remember how many knuckle heads I have run across on public campsites that think all they need is a lighter, lighter fluid, and the large wood rounds they bought at the ranger office.

Just a month ago while car camping with the family, we were sitting around the fire. It was about 10pm and I notice a car pulling in to a site. About 30 minutes go by and this guy appears out of the dark asking if he can borrow some lighter fluid cause he has no more. I let him know I have no lighter fluid and ask if he would like some help. Anyway, when I get to his fire pit I see 2 large piecs of wood in it that are charred on the outside.
He really thought that emptying his small bottle of lighter fluid was gonna get those large rounds started. Anyway, I got his fire started for him and his 2 kids....

My point to this wall of text is, if you learn to make a fire from just a coal, you learn you need diiferent stages of tinder and kindling before you can burn larger wood. You may bypass somethings with a lighter and some synthetic tinder, but not all of the stages.
 
tonym said:
My point to this wall of text is, if you learn to make a fire from just a coal, you learn you need diiferent stages of tinder and kindling before you can burn larger wood. You may bypass somethings with a lighter and some synthetic tinder, but not all of the stages.
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My thoughts exactly, if you can start a fire with a firesteel in good weather you have a much better chance of starting a fire with a bic in bad weather.
 
Always carry the means to get a fire going in the quickest way possible... modern conveniences prevail in this respect. When the situation permits, experiment with alternative means. I remember my skills mentor sending a guy back to camp for not carrying some kind of fire NOW instrument. That's all you need... you get soaked in a frozen creek and yer buddy pulls out his firedrill kit....... sssssssssSLAP!
 
moosez45 said:
Iz, nice vids brother, as always, well done, very informative, and some rockin' azz music.

When I was rock climbing, there was guy who I always saw out on the rocks. This guy climbe 5.10-5.11a in sandals. Best climber I ever saw in person, by far. Cool as a person can get. I was just starting out, and lacked any technique, per say, I was just climbing. I was struggling on this 5.10 route (way outta my league at the time), and I was clawing and scrambling to get to the top. I made it.

When I got down, I kinda held my head in shame, because John (the guy) had been watching me the whole time. I said, "I used my knees alot on that one,huh, kinda sucked I guess". John looked at me and said something I'll never forget, and changed my way of looking at alot of things.

"Rock climbing is about getting to the top. You got to the top, and that's what its all about. Technique and style comes with experience, and only time can give you that. You got to the top, didn't ya?"

We can debate the whole process of starting a fire, this way, that way, bushcraft or bics, friction or steel, fatwood or Cotton Balls. The idea is to GET A FIRE started.

Use whatever method you wish, to get your wood cookin'. But make sure you got a GUARANTEED backup. Its alot easier to figure out why your bowdrill didn't work, while sitting next to a nice warm fire.

Just sayin'. Moose
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Exactly. This is really what it comes down to.
 
I learned to do it the hard way, with all naturally available materials. It's not always easy but I practiced it until I was sure I could do it under most conditions.
Being prepared however for me means carrying a Toollogic folder which has a cool medium size blade, a firesteel and a very high quality whistle. I also carry 20 or so tampons. They are wrapped waterproof from the factory and have many uses, one of which is they take an excellent spark. I don't think I'll ever fail making a fire that way, unless I'm in the pouring rain with no shelter at all.
 
For our ancestors, like the mountain man, nothing was wasted, once a garment had reached the end of it's useful life it wasn't just tossed. Cloth was expensive, so rags served a purpose like charcloth, filters, patches and rags, used until they could be used no more.

I am a flint and steel guy, I live in southern Florida, I have access to fat wood, I also use the canvas and husks of the coconut palm, and various dried fibrous barks. Pictured below is the canvas from the coconut palm in the background of a knife I finished last week.

2468994990033885154S600x600Q85.jpg


I'll wrap up some of this stuff bury it under an inch or so of soil and build a fire on top of it. Once the fire is out I have coconut palm canvas charcloth, it's very fragile, baking it in aluminium foil contains it well, the husks of the coconut are pretty good for fire starting too.

I grab this stuff when I see it, not when I need it. I carry both pre-scavenged materials and prepared materials, like traditional charcloth. I always have a small hank of sisal. I also use the prepared PJ cotton, dryer lint, newspaper and other stuff.

I like the the modern stuff too, the small ferro rods vanish in a kit, dressed bits of bandsaw blade will shave curls like nobodies business and throw showers of sparks off the ferro rods.

They used to say "Keep your powder dry" but you can bet that wasn't the only thing they kept dry.
 
I'm new to using flint and steel, but enjoy the challenge of starting a fire without modern materials if I can. I am sure the mountain men of old could start a fire without expending a lot of energy, using a variety of found materials. They also carried a firearm and a flask of blackpowder. A little BP sprinkled on tinder will ignite readily. As an experiment, I once pulled the bullet from a 44mag pistol cartridge, dumped the powder on some dry tinder and ignited it by firing the empty shells primer with the barrel held close to the tinder. I suppose this would also work with a rifle cartridge.
 
Hushnel, I do the same with punkwood, bury under the fire and char it. It works just as good as char cloth if not better and isn't near as fragile as charcloth.

Milkweed Ovum is another favorite of mine. Doesn't even need charred and can be used to catch a spark from flint and steel or as an ember extender.
 
mistwalker said:
Just out of curiosity...do you have tinder fungus out your way on maybe Cherry trees since their bark is similar to Birch? I ask this because I have wondered how it might do in a damp environment. I was thinking that if the outside of the fungus sheds water one could maybe use a firesteel and a large hunk of fungus...just like one would make a tinder fungus stove...then expand the coal by blowing on it and then laying small kindling on the coaling fungus and blowing on it more use that heat to dry and ignite smaller material and work into the larger stuff.

I personally think it is unfair than the northerners get both Birch trees and tinder fungus :( ....but then again it is a lot colder up there in the winter...
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We've got shelf brackets that grow on black loucsts here that catch a spark when they're dry. But honestly in the time it would take to find a good one, get the ember and blow kindling to flame I can have a split wood fire started and blazing. And then with the fungus you still have to find dry tinder which around here there won't be any.:(
Iz
 
moosez45 said:
Iz, nice vids brother, as always, well done, very informative, and some rockin' azz music.

When I was rock climbing, there was guy who I always saw out on the rocks. This guy climbe 5.10-5.11a in sandals. Best climber I ever saw in person, by far. Cool as a person can get. I was just starting out, and lacked any technique, per say, I was just climbing. I was struggling on this 5.10 route (way outta my league at the time), and I was clawing and scrambling to get to the top. I made it.

When I got down, I kinda held my head in shame, because John (the guy) had been watching me the whole time. I said, "I used my knees alot on that one,huh, kinda sucked I guess". John looked at me and said something I'll never forget, and changed my way of looking at alot of things.

"Rock climbing is about getting to the top. You got to the top, and that's what its all about. Technique and style comes with experience, and only time can give you that. You got to the top, didn't ya?"

We can debate the whole process of starting a fire, this way, that way, bushcraft or bics, friction or steel, fatwood or Cotton Balls. The idea is to GET A FIRE started.

Use whatever method you wish, to get your wood cookin'. But make sure you got a GUARANTEED backup. Its alot easier to figure out why your bowdrill didn't work, while sitting next to a nice warm fire.

Just sayin'. Moose
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Well said, Moose.
Iz
 
G'day Jeff


TwinBlade said:
......

Opinions from you folks on this?
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I agree, it's a good idea to be aware of the natural tinders to be found within your area :thumbup:


Locally, our paperbark works well...

[youtube]Vv76wzA99N8[/youtube]


as does a number of our grasses..

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I would class catail seed as a flash tinder and would work better when used in conjunction with other tinders (ie a mix)...

[youtube]kzYSdcNVnDk[/youtube]




Common reed (Phragmites australis) also readily takes a spark....

NaturalTinder001.jpg


NaturalTinder002.jpg




The seed heads of Scotch thistle work well as a flash tinder, similar to Bullrush (Catail) seeds.

Thistleseedpod.jpg




Even though Fatwood isn't available locally here in Aus, I've been fortunate enough to have a friend send me some :thumbup:

Anyone who has access to this stuff knows that it is waterproof & how easy it is to make a fire with...


[youtube]4SHjFsAcDpM[/youtube]


IMO, one thing to remember about natural tinders is that they will be exposed to the elements. Knowing which ones will light is valuable knowledge, but equally important is knowing where to find dry natural tinders when it's raining http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=607085


Take care Jeff :thumbup:




Kind regards
Mick
 
tonym said:
But lets face it; If I went back in to time and gave them old mountain men a nice bic lighter and container of PJCB's, I would be 1 popular SOB.... :D
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Heck yeah!
 
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