Be honest, what will a spark net you?

[VictGerbSogCamill]

One really cool thing about this forum is the diversity of the areas discussed and lessons learned about those areas through the experiences of the outdoors-men that live in them.

Yes thin dry shavings of nearly any wood will catch a spark as will thistle, grass tops, Cedar bark and others when they are dry. Yes the one-stick-fire is a good skill to practice because one never knows where they may travel. Here in my woods in the east Appalachian Rain Forest during the late fall rains it can rain every day for two and three weeks straight, rain for several days in a row between breaks. Even during the breaks in the rain the fogs and mists are often so thick moisture is constantly dripping off the tree branches, the forest floor is soaked, and you get soaking wet just walking through them any length of time at all. Here under those particular circumstances to not use the fatwood that is laying all around to start a necessary fire would be for the foolish. Under such conditions I make my one-stick-fires using fatwood and I'll be warm before anyone attempting to make a one-stick-fire out of any hardwood even gets their fire lay set up.

Mistwalker...and now we know the rest of the story. Neat to see where members names, come from...it fits.:thumbup:

 

[sodak]

I always carry backup just in case, but enjoy trying different techniques. I'm playing with my fire piston these days, and sometimes it takes 2 or 3 whacks, but is a lot of fun, assuming you have good fungus around!

 

[Mistwalker]

Mistwalker...and now we know the rest of the story. Neat to see where members names, come from...it fits.:thumbup:

Yeah, lol, I was given that "nickname" by a friend many years ago because I love it when the woods are foggy. Any time the woods were all foggy and misty...and I had the time. I'd grab my gear and hit the woods. I'd walk till I was soaked then find a place somewhere amongst the rocks, build a fire to warm up by and meditate. A few times driving across the mountain to work, knowing there was little to do when I got there, I have found the misty woods absolutely irresistible, called in, and went for a hike.

 

[dipbait]

Let's be real. If you can catch a spark of any kind, you don't need dryer fuzz or cotton balls soaked in some thing or another. Matter of fact, if you want to be a purist, let's substitute char cloth for charred cottonwood bark. How many mountain men could actually afford cloth of any kind, much less have to rely on roasting it to a crisp after he spent his last bit on it, and I can tell you that petroleum jelly sure wasn't a glimmer to them. If you need petroleum cotton balls and dryer lint, it means you ain't diggin' hard enough or your spine is rounded and dull without a good sharp firestarting corner on it.

I guess, and as I stated, I do not want to come off snobbish here, but when it comes to bushcraft and firestarting skills, lint is a bit pussified IMO. If you know how to spark a firesteel, you can get fatwood shavings lit that are produced from a relatively sharp knife, with relative ease like this...

Opinions from you folks on this?

Mountain men didnt carry modern fire starting rods like this either. So if you want to keep it real, use a flint and steel.

 

[SouthernCross]

Mountain men didnt carry modern fire starting rods like this either. So if you want to keep it real, use a flint and steel.

Raises an interesting point regarding ignition sources as opposed to tinder.

I'm sure if you went back to pre-European settlement of Nth America, you'd find people lighting fires without even the advantages of steel

They could still generate either an ember or spark and use the materials local to them to take that ember/spark & turn it into a flame (ie local tinder).

That's not to say that they didn't carry what they found to be better, but they would also have been able to get a fire going with what they had at hand.

I guess therein lies the value of knowing local tinder sources, irrespective of how you generate the ember / spark. :thumbup:



Kind regards
Mick

 

[hushnel]

It makes me wonder if the Native Americans used iron pyrite and flint, it would have been available, it would seem that they would have.

 

[ROCK6]

I guess, and as I stated, I do not want to come off snobbish here, but when it comes to bushcraft and firestarting skills, lint is a bit pussified IMO. If you know how to spark a firesteel, you can get fatwood shavings lit that are produced from a relatively sharp knife, with relative ease like this...

Opinions from you folks on this?

I don't know, I like to try different natural materials to catch a spark...best of course has been fat wood or some of the grasses we have (when dry); however, I think there are more levels to bushcraft than going all-out primitive. My son started out with PCB's, only because he couldn't put enough focused pressure on the firesteel. He now tries other natural tinder and loves to experiment. I still carry PCB's in the cap of my firesteel handle...to me, it's about efficiency, if I'm struggling to find natural tinder, I'll pull out the PCB's and a fire started.

Someone did mention it that as you're hiking, collect good tinder along the way! When you really need it, chances are it will be harder to find. I don't think you're coming off as snobbish, but I do think there are different skill levels when it comes to "bushcraft" and some are still working with dryer lint and PCB's. Encouraging them to work with more natural and/or primitive methods is the goal.

Great topic and discussion though:thumbup:

ROCK6

 

[scouter27]

When I need fire I stand at the top of the mountain with a metal rod in one hand, my tinder bundle in the other and wait for lightning.

Pussified fire starting is anything else

 

[Tuxdad]

I look at it from a perspective of the more options and knowledge you have the better off you are.. Be it lint, or cotton balls soaked something, or charred punk or cloth or fatwood or whatever else you can come up with, in the end its all about having the knowledge and using it to survive, and get thru the day...

Great question Bud:thumbup:...

 

[Mistwalker]

It makes me wonder if the Native Americans used iron pyrite and flint, it would have been available, it would seem that they would have.

I'm sure some did in the areas both were avaiable or could be gathered in their travels.

 

[alco141]

i like to hunt, a fire for me is a necessary tool, it is not an exercise in how minimal can i go, if i need a fire i need a fire, so i carry a fire, bic lighter, fire steel and inner tube pieces and pjcbs, at times in very dangerous cold weather i carry a highway flare also, it is not about bush craft to me, it is about getting past a bad spot i am in. i am not going out there with the smallest amount ogf gear i can just to see if i can do it.

alex

 

[Moosez45]

i like to hunt, a fire for me is a necessary tool, it is not an exercise in how minimal can i go, if i need a fire i need a fire, so i carry a fire, bic lighter, fire steel and inner tube pieces and pjcbs, at times in very dangerous cold weather i carry a highway flare also, it is not about bush craft to me, it is about getting past a bad spot i am in. i am not going out there with the smallest amount ogf gear i can just to see if i can do it.

alex

Road flares will work quite well. LOL. Moose

 

[Bigfattyt]

Another thing to remember is that if you really need a fire, you may have limited to no fine motor skills left.

I survived a brush with hypothermia in the Teaton mountains in early winter. Several feet of snow. Very cold night. I did not check my gear before I left, and I had the sleeping bag that did not fit (in the compression sack that my bigger bag normally goes in).

When you realize your bag is 2 feet too short for you, and you can't even get your arms in it, and it is about -28 you have a real problem.

Our fire wood had been snowed over while I was asleep. Luckily I got a fire started, and sat next to it for about 4 hours till my companions awoke.

The reason I share this story, is I could barely make a lighter work. I had a hard time getting my coat zipped on. I had gone past the cold shaking phase to the "warm and fuzzy, all I need is to lay down and take a nice warm nap" phase.

Not only did my brain shut down, but I got horribly stupid. I never even thought to wake my buddies up.

Now, here is the really stupid part........our truck was just a stones throw away, and I never thought to just get the keys and start it up and sit in front of the heater till the danger was past.

I am an Eagle Scout who has been "trained" to recognize the signs of hypothermia, and survival etc. I knew enough to know that when the shivering and cold were replaced with warm and fuzzy drowsy feeling, I Needed to do something, but my brain was pretty much shut down by then. I still managed to get a fire started in 2 feet of snow, but the smart part of my brain that should have told me to wake my friends up and jump in the truck was completely shut off.

 

[Ethan Becker]

Hey Twinblade.....

As a person who has only gotten a coal once using a hand drill but many blisters trying- I am HUGE believer in el Bic, barring that a firesteel or the clever little sparker that comes with the tinderquick kit.....I agree that fatwood(or rich pine ) and various parts of the eastern red cedar (junipera viirginiana) are WONDERFULL finds....I use fatwood splints to get a fire going virtually every morning thru the heating season here......When cruising the northern Ontario woods I am always delighted by the ease with which birch bark gets the tea fire going in a hurry......I usually grab a handfull and put in a pocket as soon as I hit the woods up there.....I have to say I really enjoy using kitchen matches which I went through by the case as a kid and still find almost magical.......But, there is a Bic in my pocket all day, every day........Skab has a great point about Bics and altitude.....Butane is not worth a damn at altitude or when you REALLY, REALY, gotta get warm.....Back up, back up, backup.....

All Best....

ethan

Fat wood scrapings catch the spark awfully well and I have had really good luck with cedar bark as well as the scrapings of the wood.......Split it small----Stack it virtually vertical against a back log and prepare to get toasty.....

All Best...

ethan

 

[Gadgetaholic]

Yesterday a couple of new fire starting tools arrived in the mail - a Countycomm Peanut lighter & a Countycomm Split Pea Lighter. :thumbup: The Split Pea is a little smaller than the end part of my thumb (from the joint to the tip) and if anyone just can't find any where to fit that little sucker as a backup than I'd like to know why! Even the standard peanut lighter is small enough to tuck into the coin pocket on my jeans (I have been EDCing one for almost a year).

I find it amusing when people talk about fire drills & friction fires - I consider those useful to know but difficult, time consuming & energy burning. I have watched Man, Woman, Wild and in one episode Mike gets a fire going with a fire plough - he mentions that it was an hour & a half of work! Apart from using a friction fire as a learning exercise or using one in a desperate situation when you have no other way, I just wouldn't consider that method.

For camping/hiking or adventuring anywhere where things could go wrong (like the various scenarios in the survival shows) I would always ensure I have a lighter. In every episode of Man, Woman, Wild - Mike has a knife but not a lighter - he needs to attach a lighter to his knife holster IMO. I go camping with at least one butane lighter + lighter fluid lighter + fire steel. I always have at least one lighter tucked into a pocket so even separated from my pack I still have a lighter.

In a PSK I would always put 2 lighters in - probably a butane & a peanut. In a pack I usually have 3 or more lighters and in my pockets at least 1 lighter. Our species invented the damned things so why not take advantage of them! I take a firesteel as a backup though, just in case the cold and/or altitude makes the butane lighters fail and maybe the fluid lighters are struggling in the wind or something - probably unlikely but it never hurts to be prepared!

I am less worried about carrying tinder though - there is usually something that a person with a knife can acquire out in the surroundings - but usually I'll have something in my pack like a couple of PJCBs in a waterproof container.

If there is one thing I've learned from survival shows it is to be better prepared than they are in their scenarios, mainly because I'm less skilled and need all the help I can get.

 

[Moosez45]

Yesterday a couple of new fire starting tools arrived in the mail - a Countycomm Peanut lighter & a Countycomm Split Pea Lighter. :thumbup: The Split Pea is a little smaller than the end part of my thumb (from the joint to the tip) and if anyone just can't find any where to fit that little sucker as a backup than I'd like to know why! Even the standard peanut lighter is small enough to tuck into the coin pocket on my jeans (I have been EDCing one for almost a year).

I find it amusing when people talk about fire drills & friction fires - I consider those useful to know but difficult, time consuming & energy burning. I have watched Man, Woman, Wild and in one episode Mike gets a fire going with a fire plough - he mentions that it was an hour & a half of work! Apart from using a friction fire as a learning exercise or using one in a desperate situation when you have no other way, I just wouldn't consider that method.

For camping/hiking or adventuring anywhere where things could go wrong (like the various scenarios in the survival shows) I would always ensure I have a lighter. In every episode of Man, Woman, Wild - Mike has a knife but not a lighter - he needs to attach a lighter to his knife holster IMO. I go camping with at least one butane lighter + lighter fluid lighter + fire steel. I always have at least one lighter tucked into a pocket so even separated from my pack I still have a lighter.

In a PSK I would always put 2 lighters in - probably a butane & a peanut. In a pack I usually have 3 or more lighters and in my pockets at least 1 lighter. Our species invented the damned things so why not take advantage of them! I take a firesteel as a backup though, just in case the cold and/or altitude makes the butane lighters fail and maybe the fluid lighters are struggling in the wind or something - probably unlikely but it never hurts to be prepared!

I am less worried about carrying tinder though - there is usually something that a person with a knife can acquire out in the surroundings - but usually I'll have something in my pack like a couple of PJCBs in a waterproof container.

If there is one thing I've learned from survival shows it is to be better prepared than they are in their scenarios, mainly because I'm less skilled and need all the help I can get.

I couldn't agree more. But, I like the challenge of fire from nothing. Yeah, its hard work, but it is very fulfilling, as most hard work is. I too carry lighters, matches, etc. but most times when I'm in the woods, I'm playing around. For me its fun to make a friction fire. I like using a firesteel. But lighters, firesteels, friction, its all about STARTING the fire. There is a BUILD UP that must take place, or no fire burns. Some in this thread, are saying that learning to build a fire from a tiny fragile coal, makes it alot easier to build a fire using a match, or BIC. Its all about what the individual wants to get out of the experience. Moose

 

[gadgetgeek]

Bigfattyt, I know exactly what you mean, I've done almost the same thing, and when my buddy woke up he found me huddled over a tiny twig fire with my coat open to capture as much heat as I could, with a pile of kindling 6 feet away, within 10 seconds he tripled the size of the fire with wood I'd prepared the night before. some times the brain just gets dumb!

 

[Gadgetaholic]

But, I like the challenge of fire from nothing. Yeah, its hard work, but it is very fulfilling, as most hard work is.

I have no problem with starting a fire from friction (plough, bow or whatever) for the enjoyment of it or to practice that skill - it's possible that it is a skill you may be glad to have one day. But if your aim is to get a fire burning then I see no point in taking 30 minutes instead of <1 minute.

I have tested the lighting of a PJCB from a firesteel - because I wanted to know if I could do it if I had to, a nice rapid scrapping movement and whoomf, burning cotton ball -first try! It was just an exercise at home, but it brought a smile to my face . I'll try some natural tinders with a fire steel at some point, not to get a fire going but to experiment with the technique.

One thing I like to do is pick up any paper or cardboard lying around a camp site and use that to start a fire - it gets the fire lit pretty easily and it also rids the camp site of litter left by inconsiderate jerks previously. Some dry paper or cardboard, a lighter, some dry twigs and viola - fire!

 

[sodak]

Not only did my brain shut down, but I got horribly stupid. I never even thought to wake my buddies up.

Now, here is the really stupid part........our truck was just a stones throw away, and I never thought to just get the keys and start it up and sit in front of the heater till the danger was past.

The very last stage before you lay down to take your final nap is that you strip off all your clothes because your brain thinks you are hot. I'm from the north country, and this happens all the time, when someone freezes to death, they are found naked or almost naked. This happened last year in Colorado, where a man lost control of his car, went off the road and ended up next to a river. When SAR found him, he was in his underwear, squatting, rocking back and forth on his heels, and unresponsive. He was probably very close to death at that point. He was very, very lucky. How many would normally think he was high on something?

Practicing skills is a very good thing. Not having reliable backup is ridiculous, IMO.

 

[August West]

I like carrying a NO BS FIRE RIGHT NOW way of building a fire such as a road flare are a jumbo fire straw and a bic for true emergency use. But for day in day out cuppa tea fires I practice with flint and still and natural char or bow drill. I enjoy being proficient with primitive skills but if it truly gets root hog or die I will flick my bic in a heartbeat. Chris