bear vs shotgun...

Joined
Jun 25, 2001
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56
you guys have provided a wealth of information on bears in the past, so perhaps you can answer some questions for me or make some suggestions... my question is this:

3" 12 gauge 1.25 ounce rifled slugs... lethal for bears? (when i say bears i mean those native to the continental united states)...

if they are, any brands or types you would favor?

how about a home defense load (other than 2.75" 00 buckshot)?

thanks!

the d
 
for bears I would go Federal or special purpose. Heaviest I could find. They've been using slugs against bears for over a 100 years. Must be a reason. I choose Federal because they are usually in the top if not the leader in velocity per weight.


munk
 
thanks, munk... ive tried federal... the guy at the range said every time i fired, it knocked the picture out on their surveillance camera... i only shot 9 of them, and my shoulder was sore for 3 days after that...
 
..someone's going to come along about now and suggest some sort of scatter weight- people often alternate personal decision Buck and slug, and I don't disagree.
Brace him, then place him.

munk
 
I have heard slugs will kill just about anything. A 375 H&H mag should also do.

Do you guys think that a AK47 fully loaded with 7.62x39 hollow points could put down a Grizzly? Would 5,10,15,30 rounds do enough damage to the bear? I always bring my AK camping and is now the most powerful rifle I have. I plan on getting more powerful rifles in the future.:confused:
 
7 1/2 trap load. 2&3/4". Over-penetration is a BIG issue. Walls are thin.
 
I'm not saying it won't- but I don't like it. He'd be mortally wounded and chewing on you and yours for restitution before expiring.
At least alternate hollow point and FMJ.


munk
 
People don't realize what a 'dove' load can do in close quarters. . 7.5s
 
Shot dosent start to open up into a pattern until around 20 feet. At normal civilian combat distances you get what is called a "rat hole wound" when they get hit with bird shot. (I believe you can put the picture together by the discriptive name by what the cavity left behind is like.) Remember that shooting a shotgun is just like shooting a rifle in combat, you have got to aim!

I live in a off campus college apt, very thin walls, overpenetration scares me to death and I have done much research into the issue. The situation is different for everyone, but I stick with my 3/4 oz. #7 birdshot for defence. Also, the load/recoil gives you easy follow up shots and less flash in the dark.

As for slugs, they will take anything in North America, and if loaded properly, maybe anything period. (At appropriate distances of course.)

Added:
As for 7.62x39 there is an article for reloading it in the July issue of "Guns & Ammo". The writer says that it produces more energy than a .223. I wouldent be too sure about it against bear, but amaizing things have been done with a .22 when needed, why not a "short .30"? If you are going hunting with it, buy good American manufacture ammo. The Russian stuff is good for plinking, but little else.
As for home defence, it isnt for me. But I would suggest quality ammo from Cor-Bon. They make some good stuff that is designed to break up within walls, also look at their hunting ammo for this round, it is what I would use. (BTW-They like their stuff HOT!)
 
Just walk up to the bear grab him and snap his neck! Works great and no danger of stray rounds injuring someone.:D
God Bless.
Terry
 
There is no commercially loaded 762 X39 ammo I'm aware of that would do anything but superfically wound. The soviet surplus jacketed stuff at least might penetrate one iota...

But its jacketed; and its steel core is nice-


Don't even consider soviet short unless you are- lucky! Sure, the little soviet is more powerful than the .223 ; so what?!! So is a baseball bat.
munk
 
For 12 Gauge, I would use the Brenneke Slugs. The are made of solid lead and have the base screwed on it. They are shaped like the Sheridan .20 cal pellet with external groves to help it spin stabalize.

For the AK 47, Solids / FMJ are preferable. I would go with something heavier.

I usually have my Alpine Ruger Redhawk (4") loaded with Garret 310 gr hard SWC or Buffalo Bore 310 grs. in it for bear.

Also for back up a good Khukuri!!!! :)
 
The 12 gauge slugs will work. I'd try several different brands & see which one you & your gun likes the best for accuracy, penetration & etc. My best results have been from barrels with no more than "improved cylinder" for choke. A good place to look at some 12 gauge pumps built for business is "jon Tank's Rifle Shop" in Nebraska. He has a good web-site, has been in business for a long time & knows whereof he speaks. At the distances you are likely to encounter in your home, any choke & practically any size shot will work. Overpenetration can be a problem with 000, 00, 0, #1, & #4 buckshot. Standard loads of #4, #5, #6 or #7.5 have seemed to do a good job in some of the testing we have done. Several companies are now loading "Reduced Recoil Buckshot" which has been shown to extremely effective at close range without the recoil of the standard & magnum loadings. Federal and Selliers&Belliot are both producing such loads.

If you are only going to shoot slugs, I'd look into a Hastings Rifled Slug Barrel.

If you are going with a rifle, you might take a look at the web-site of 'the Hanned Line.' He produces some equipment to make your ammo more efficient without reloading & I can testify to the end results living up to his claims.

At present, the Remington 870 is about the best deal going. We have outfitted several that we bought used......some we added screw in choke tubes, some the Hastings barrels. The one built strictly for slugs has sights, extended magazine(which makes it too heavy for a trail gun), parkerized finish & etc. If the recoil is rough & you aren't going to be packing the gun great distances, you might try adding lead(in the form of bars, or birdshot, or etc.) to the hole under the butt plate.....this addition of weight in the stock will reduce the recoil pretty well, but of course, it adds overall weight to the gun.

The addition of a Pachmayr 'Decelerator' butt pad does a lot to help the recoil situation without adding very much length to the stock. Check with Jon Tank on some of these modifications, ammo tests, & etc. He is very helpful & very professional.
 
I still think my six inch pointed stick will take any bear down:D
for bears I would go Federal or special purpose. Heaviest I could find. They've been using slugs against bears for over a 100 years. Must be a reason. I choose Federal because they are usually in the top if not the leader in velocity per weight.
Hmm...if I had only known when I first started shooting, would have saved me many a sore night.
 
in upper Ontario, the owner of the camp used some of the largest buckshot rounds I've ever seen. He's shot bears on his porch when they were dissassembling his grill (came up his porch stairs, thru a screen door), and one that was looking in his bedroom window. He's not hunting bears, he's just defending his property at close range. I'd take that into consideration.

Keith
 
The .444 Marlin and .45-70 Gov are deadly on Bears. My choice would be a .45-70.

For a Shotgun I would use .12 Gauge Slugs (Brenneke).

Also don't forget the good old .30-06 Springfield.

The .375 H&H is just alittle heavy for me anyway, hell of a round though, it will take anything down on this planet and do it with style. :D

There is an old saying that BIG bullets make BIG holes that do alot of damage to game and men.

I am just a big bore kind of guy.
 
Here I go again: :D

My personal ideology on this one is to shoot the heaviest 12 gauge slug and buckshot (you could even alternate rounds) rounds that I can fire accurately and fast. For me that is usually max-loaded 2 3/4", 1.25 ounce slugs, sometimes with 00 buck. Plus I get a bonus round for going shorter. I don't think the bear would notice too much of a difference in that quarter-inch.

For me, being competent with the shotgun is way more important than using 3" magnum ammo. If the gun kicks so bad it scares you when you look at it, then you will never practice enough with it. Semi-autos like the Remington 1100 kick less as well, mind you they can be heavier to carry and might not be as reliable as a pump.

I watched a man nail 5 targets in 1.3 seconds with a Beretta 1200 semi auto. I asked if I could try, and took 3.8 seconds to do the same. Keep in mind that this is under controlled conditions at a range and we were prepared for the targets. Still it shows that practice means a lot.

I practiced modestly with my Winchester pump and was able to nail 5 targets in a bit less than four seconds too. I operated that gun instinctively because I used it for all my hunting as a kid, but I sold it and bought a Remington. Now I have to train not to reach in the wrong spot for the safety (slide release too). At one point, a bear could set a place, pour a glass of chardonnay, tuck in a napkin and stick a fork in me before I got that gun to go off. I still wonder if I will go into 'Winchester mode' under stress. I haven't practiced with it or handled it enough.

Dry fire practice is important for bringing the arm to bear:rolleyes: and snapping off that first quick shot. I bought a set of fake shotshells called 'snap caps' and ran them through my Winchester a jillion times. It helped make the handling the gun become second nature. If you had to recognize a threat, unsling and fire 3 times accurately, how long would that take?

In those adrenaline-pumped, split-seconds between when a bear charges and you decide whether or not to shoot, the most important thing is to have a gun that you handle and aim instinctively. You have to be both fast and accurate. That means practicing with it so much that it becomes a given where the muzzle is pointed. If it kicks the crap out of you inside of ten rounds, then I would consider another reasonable loading, or something else.

I concur that AK rounds might not be enough. FMJ's don't transmit shock well, and hollow points are likely too frangible. If a Nosler partition soft point type of bullet is available, then that may be a good option. If you are the fastest most accurate AK shooter in your state and can find suitably-constructed bullets, then that is the gun you should use. Same would go for a cowboy action shooter and his lever-action .44 magnum. If it handles like part of your own body and is powerful enough, then use it.

I still like my 12 gauge; I get .338 Win Mag power at close range in a much faster shooting, lighter weight and more compact package. I don't have the option of a .44 magnum handgun, but I am not very good with one anyway. I stick a Sidesaddle on my Remington for extra rounds, and I have the option of flares, rubber bullets and bird shot for other safety and survival applications. Ever shot a duck with an AK? :eek: :D

Hope this helps,
Phil
 
Man I am tired...

I was just skimming over the forum and I read as this thread "BEER AND SHOTGUN"... I thought "MMMM GOOD!"...funny thing is I replied earlier today:rolleyes:

... yup, bedtime...
 
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