Bearings on Non- Flipper Knives

Joined
Jul 14, 2016
Messages
94
The short version of what I'm about to say:

Bearings shouldn't only be for flippers, and flippers don't always need to be on bearings.

I love ball-bearing flippers. When a bearing pivot is in tune with a firm detent, a flipper will gleefully fly open with the flick of a finger and glide gently closed on it's own gravity.
However, my 5 year-old Kershaw Chill, running on washers and a rather soft detent, deploys as reliably as my bearing flippers, if not quite as gracefully.
This sub-$20 knife, designed by flipper pioneer RJ Martin and manufactured in China, succeeds by virtue of design, engineering, and execution,
and despite the absence of a ball-bearing pivot (or a godforsaken Speedsafe).

There is a perception that ball-bearings allow a knife to deploy faster, which may be true, but to me that is an aesthetic benefit rather than a practical one.
The same is true for "free-falling" blade closure; since most bearing flippers are liner- or framelocks, one's thumb must cross the blade path to close the knife,
which negates any useful benefit of free-falling closure.

The practical advantage of a ball-bearing system is to eliminate blade play. Washers require some (or a lot of) play to function smoothly,
depending on how close the tolerances of the whole system are. Ball-bearing pivots operate best when they are as tight as possible without seizing up.
If your ball-bearing pivot is feeling sluggish, it's probably either dirty or not tight enough.

With washers, tuning the pivot is always a compromise between blade play and friction, and the happy medium will be different for every knife.
On a knife with a thumbstud and liner- or framelock, running on washers, I'll tighten the pivot to elminate blade play.
On a flipper with washers, I'll run the pivot slightly looser to help deployment, at the expense of a little blade play.

Ball bearings largely eliminate the need for this compromise. The downside is... I can't think of one.

So why aren't ball-bearings utilized on more non-flipper folders? Wouldn't most modern folders benefit from a smooth, tight pivot?

In particular, there are two systems which I think would benefit enormously from incorporation of a bearing pivot:
The Compression lock and the Axis lock. Think about it.
Both systems allow for one-handed closing without one's fingers crossing the blade path, and both locks essentially eliminate vertical blade play.

My Mini-Grip needs a perceptible amount of horizontal play to fall closed reliably.
My Sage 5 locks up like a vault, but requires a wrist flick to close one-handed.

These are hardly criticisms, I like both knives the way they are. The Sage 5, in particular, is amazingly smooth on phosphor bronze.
But imagine... if your PM2, or your 940, locked up with ZERO play and fell closed like it was sliding on glass...

So, why don't we have this?
I'm not just asking rhetorically, as there may be good reasons why Spyderco and Benchmade have seemingly never used ball-bearings in conjunction with their signature in-house lock designs.
But it seems like a no-brainer.

Sal, Benchie, if this is not already in the works for future designs, please make it happen.

Thanks!
 
A few Knives I can think if on all bearings that don't have flippers:

Viper Odino
Benchmade 761 & 765
Spyderco Nirvana
CKF Garza
Kizer Guru (non flipper version)

I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Anyways, point being, there are some ball bearing non-flipper Knives, even if they aren't as common as they might be.
 
Don't ball bearings get more gunk in them and need to be cleaned more often?

I know they're more work to field strip, especially non-captive bearings, if that matters.
 
Thank you for pointing those out, I wasn't aware that any of those knives were on bearings.
Another interesting example is the Lionsteel TM1, with thumbstuds, mid-backlock, and IKBS.
 
Don't ball bearings get more gunk in them and need to be cleaned more often?

I know they're more work to field strip, especially non-captive bearings, if that matters.
That's a question I'd also like the answer to. Ball bearings certainly contain more surfaces, nooks, and crannies that could harbor contaminants as contrasted with plain bronze washers. Given that a knife pivot is a low speed bearing that sees few revolutions per year compared to, say, a motor or wheel bearing, it seems to me that good plain bearings are a better fit than ball bearings.
 
If you put ball bearings on a non flipper, you'll need a stronger detent imo, which will make deployment harder in most cases. You build up less pressure with your thumb than using a flipper.
 
Don't ball bearings get more gunk in them and need to be cleaned more often?

I know they're more work to field strip, especially non-captive bearings, if that matters.

I realize now that when I repeatedly referred to "ball-bearings" in my original post, I was specifically thinking of caged bearings, but failed to make that distinction.

I haven't found it to be the case that they require more frequent maintenance, but at some point all pivots will accumulate gunk and need cleaned out.
To clean caged bearings with the knife disassembled, i just shake them around in lighter fluid, same as I do with washers.
I have no experience with non-captive bearings, but their presence would certainly discourage me from disassembling the knife.
 
Don't ball bearings get more gunk in them and need to be cleaned more often?

I know they're more work to field strip, especially non-captive bearings, if that matters.

Yes. Which is why I've always preferred PB bushings to bearings.

I wish we'd see more use of pivot bushings in the industry, like you get in a PM2 or Sebenza 21. Pivot adjustments annoy me.
 
I think bearings are a highly overrated fad and totally unnecessary in a knife blade, you actually use a knife in the field and bearings will give you problems.
I have a ZT 0801 with bearings, it's cool but I think this whole everything needs a bearing thing is out of hand.
My Adamas has no bearings and it's the smoothest knife I own, it falls open and closed.
My ZT 0620 is bushing and also smoother than my 0801.
I'm not sold on bearings and I won't ever buy another knife with one..
 
Alan Davis uses them. They work well for him. I have a user of his, never "gunked" up, and no play whatsoever.

Russ
 
I have 2 custom knives that are NOT flippers, that have bearings; I LOVE them!!
 
I have 2 custom knives that are NOT flippers, that have bearings; I LOVE them!!
I always feel like you're screaming when i read your posts. 🙁 Bearing do give the ability to tighten the pivot more and still be able to open the knife smoothly. Are they necessary, no but people seem to like them.
 
I have no experience with non-captive bearings, but their presence would certainly discourage me from disassembling the knife.

I took apart my IKBS flipper once. ONCE. Never again. Tiny bearings *everywhere*.

If you have to do it, disassemble it in a cookie sheet or something so nothing wanders off.
 
Simpler is always better.

I avoid knives with bearings, for the most part, because of the added complexity. More things to go wrong.

I've never had an issue with phosphor bronze washers. Once you get the pivot tightened to the sweet spot, the knife is usually VERY smooth.
 
I have no problems with my CRK Tilock which is not a flipper but has bearings in a plastic cage. You can readily flick it open, which is not true of the CRK Sebenza. It has needed no maintenance other than a wash up in soap and water for cleaning.
 
I have no problems with my CRK Tilock which is not a flipper but has bearings in a plastic cage. You can readily flick it open, which is not true of the CRK Sebenza. It has needed no maintenance other than a wash up in soap and water for cleaning.

A properly tuned sebenza flicks open easily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Bearing are inevitably more expensive and they're honestly a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I've not met a knife yet that my thumb muscles are insufficient to open no matter what it rides on. They're fun, which is great, but other than that they're an unnecessary embellishment that I don't love paying more for. So, for me at least, put 'em on the knives that I love to sit on the couch and play with, but leave them far off the work horses that I take in and beat on, not because they're bad, but simply because they're an expensive flourish that nobody really needs.
 
Ikbs, put a magnet on the blade before taking it apart.
My eros was taken apart once by me out of curiosity. I havnt had a need to since. It has been years.
 
Back
Top