Beck TRACKER

Jaeger,

I can't speak for them on that, since I don't know. If they have anything to share on it, they will.

In the end, everyone involved is in business: Tracker School, Dave Becks, TOPS. It all becomes a matter of economics, market share, dollars, and being able to feed their families I guess.

It does seem Dave Beck gave up the rights according to the tracker School, so I think he's kinda got himself stuck...it sucks, because he's one of the good guys, too, but sometimes choices become regrets when we don't see the longer term implications of those choices.

Perhaps Dave was not in a position, at the time he was offered the deal, to supply the blades. We don't know his situatin, but can only assume he had good reasons at the time to refuse the contract. I feel for him, and I suspect based on the integrity of the folks at TOPS, that they feel for him, too, but they are the ones who have the green light now, and they would be silly to give that up.

I think it would be very cool if the three parties could work out an arrangement for Dave to make some of his versions, and they share in the proceeds. The value of the Beck knife, because of demand and the movie, has gone way up, IMHO, so there would be more room for profit-sharing. It seems that it would be a win/win for all of them to do so. A limited run of custom pieces. Just thinking out loud here....

~Brian.
 
TOPs did send some knives to the set, aluminum for sure, and maybe some actual trackers -- I don;t know.

I got the scoop on which knives from Tom Kier, who was a fight coordinator on the movie. He could elaborate more on it. Most of the movie knives were made by the prop guys from what I understand, so that may mena NEITHER knife was used in the movie.

~B.
 
RIC Just saying the original TOM BROWN MEDICINE KNIFE doesn't even come close to the BECK TRACKER . Dave redesigned the MEDICINE KNIFE to what the "TRACKER is today.
 
I believe TOPS is making a big mistake by prohibiting Dave from making these knives. Dave would have made a number of higher end versions of the knife which would have given the design more favorable press and would have absorbed some of the higher end collectors. I doubt he would have taken any real market away from TOPS. On the contrary, since the association is well known, whatever sucess Dave has would only help to promote Tom Brown and Tops.

Instead TOPS is encouraging more experienced collectors to go with their version of the knife. At $300.00, the laser cut 1095 blades, are going to do less then outstanding against the kinds of knives we usually see priced at that range. The average Joe may not know that, but experienced collectors will see that right away. By pushing these guys onto the TOPS knife you are inviting a comparison that is not going to be favorable. It is almost like begging for negative feedback. As interesting as this design is, you really would not want to see it compared to the stuff being produced by the likes of BUSSE, Chris Reeves, or RANDALL.

Just because someone has an agreement does not mean that the decision is not a poor one. I hope Tops reconsiders and allows Dave to work with them to promote their mutual success.

n2s
 
Not2sharp, TOPS Knives is not now, nor ever has prevented Dave Beck or anyone else from making the "Tom Brown Tracker", the right to license that knife is up to Mr. Brown exclusively. Mike Fuller simply took Mr. Brown up on his offer to make the knives to the design he requested and in the quantities needed because of the publicity driven by the movie.

The TOPS Tracker is not “cheapo laser cut” as you have implied and I think your prejudice against TOPS and Tom Brown Jr. here only complicates Mr. Beck’s chances of working out an agreement between them in the future.
 
I dont see any reason Dave Beck couldnt make the same knife he has made under a different name.. The Tops version is quite a bit different in terms of design..
Not2Sharp you are living up to your name bashing TOPS buddy.. I have been to the TOPS facility and have seen the knives being made.. THEY are as hand made as MANY custom knives!! There is a guy standing behind a grinder free-handing it just like in my shop..
They do everything in house. TOPS does have profiles cut but so do MANY custom makers, DUH....
I find the Tracker design very limited in actual use, but when someone makes a movie highlighting something, REAL USE doesnt really matter does it?
Trying to make TOPS out to be the bag guy is just DUMB.. All due respect, Dave Beck should have been making them all along if he really wanted too..
Seems to me there is nothing to stop him now...

Mike Fuller in NO WAY set out to do any harm to Dave Beck.. If any harm came to Mr. Beck it came from his own doing, and the realease of a major motion picture, which sparked all this sudden interest... IF something is GOOD, its good even without a movie...
 
The TOPS Tracker is not “laser cut”

From the Tom Brown Tracker Knife Operating Instructions PDF:

"The knife is made from 1095 high-carbon steel 3/16" thick. It is laser cut and hand ground, then heat treated followed by cryo treatment to create a knife with outstanding edge-holding capabilities and hardness. It is then finished with a baked on epoxy coating to make it impervious to the elements and finally laser engraved with the logo, signature, and serial number..."

The rest of it is available here:
http://www.trackerschool.com/trackerknife/TrackerKnifeManual.pdf

"...your prejudice against TOPS and Tom Brown Jr."

I am not prejudiced against either one, I am just calling it as I see it. Take it as it was intended; just some friendly feedback.

n2s
 
As I said they are not laser cut, I posted on this forum to give the members here some factual information concerning TOPS Knives, not to argue with anyone. Thanks for the friendly feedback.
 
Why would anyone make an issue about laser cutting today anyway?

Custom makers who don't, and there aren't many anymore, don't do it because they profile using other methods which in some cases are more affordable...like a band saw, a buddy's water-jet or plasma cutter, or a profile grinder.

Even so, I believe Allen is right when he says the Tracker is not, because I understood that the profile was milled, which is one of the most expensive operations in making a knife. I think the manual is a misprint.

What does it matter anyway?

Laser cutting a profile just does it faster and more accurately. I fail to see how that cheapens the value of any knife and there are CERTAINLY plenty of "custom" knives getting laser cut. If anything, its among the most accurate methods of profiling and assures better tolerances to the purchasing public.
 
Andy,

You are absolutely correct. I was thinking about the steel, but that is certainly not how it comes across. I have edited my original post to remove the unnecessary and confusing verbage.

n2s
 
TOPS has been machining thier blanks for some time now... I believe Mike said they were having edge hardening difficulties...
 
Allen, Andy, Trace,

As Mike would say, "Cheers, Mates!"

Now the posts have been edited so people don't look foolish in posterity. I missed all the "confusing verbage" but I'm certain it was a doozy! I think maybe a more accurate term, based on Trace's reply, might be "confused verbage."

As I said before, there are no bad guys in this situation, and Dave Beck, TOPS, and Tom Brown have all shown what true professionalism is in how they handled this. It was firm, direct, and polite, without even one bit of the whining that goes on with so many makers in this little biz.

This whole situation should be an example to a LOT of people in this industry (and on this board) of how mature adults actually still do business. An example a lot more of them need to follow.

Best,

Brian.
 
I am glad that things are settled in this issue. However, I for one am still quite confused. If someone wanted to have Mr. Beck make a "tracker" knife like he used to make, is that possible? I understand that it wouldn't be a "Tom Brown Tracker" knife, as that is the name of the TOPS one. Other than that, I am confused on where things lie right now. I don't need to know the story of how things got to where the are, I just want to know where things are at right now!

Thanks all.
 
Okay, it was used in a movie so, now it is going to be sought out by people who have no clue why it was designed and built the way it is. How many of us really need a knife like this anyway? I suspect this knife will get its 6 seconds of fame like the Dirty Harry Auto-Mag and S&W 44 Magnum. After the smoke and dust settles, the few people who understand the product and need it will put it to good use. Everyone else will have an expensive dust collector rusting in a closet somewhere.

Myself, I will continue to use practical knives that serve my real world needs whether they have movie publicity behind them or not.
 
Okay, it was used in a movie so, now it is going to be sought out by people who have no clue why it was designed and built the way it is.
Click to expand...

You mean it's not a throwing knife? :rolleyes:

n2s

edited to add:

I guess it is. From the manual:

"It can be lashed to a pole for use as a spear, and it can be thrown much like a tomahawk."
 
As I said they are not laser cut, I posted on this forum to give the members here some factual information concerning TOPS Knives, not to argue with anyone.
Click to expand...

It looks like Tops should be asking for a retraction.

This is taken from the current (June 2003) issue of Knives Illustrated (Points of Interest, pg 10)

"The tracker is manufactured in accordance with the strict design specifictions designed by Brown and Tops USA. The knife is made from 1095 high-carbon steel, 3/16-inch thick. It is laser cut and hand ground, then heat treated followed by cryo treatment to create a knife with outstanding edge holding capability and hardness.... The Tracker retails for $225. A specially designed sheath may be purchased for $25."

n2s
 
Hey, Dave!
I STILL have one of your original Tracker knives you made about ten years ago. Has seen a lot of abuse, but still holding up nicely. ;)
For all it's worth, I prefer your tracker knive to TOPS. Nothing against TOPS, but your knives are easier to sharpen.
May be high carbon, but DAMN! They're increadibly hard!
Maybe I'm wierd, but I don't care much for punch out knives. :p They have no personality.



Joe
 
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