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Becker BK-10 vs. TOPS Hawkes Hellion Elite
- Thread starter BushOgre
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i got caught up in the TB tracker hype and wasted 300 ( i was young and stupid ) maybe that's what i don't trust the hellion
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doesn't the sharpened clip point and saw teeth prevent you from using the knife as a draw blade
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Pretty well any knife can be used as a draw knife. Drive the tip of the blade into a piece of wood and use the wood as one of the handles.
Actually I think the Hellion looks like an interesting knife - much smaller than I envisioned.
Doc
It seems to me the more appropriate comparison would have been to the BK-9 rather than the BK-10... I have extensively compared the BK-9 and the Hellion, and I would give a significant edge to the Hellion in quality, performance, functionality and design, except for the critical areas of out of the box sharpness and blade cross-section design (which could easily be a dealbreaker to many). The blade cross-section problems of the Hellion are quite correctable (with a lot of hard work, and powered tools for at least the point grind) for short to "medium-term" use, but the problem inevitably remains for long-term use if one assumes prolonged in-the-field sharpening for several weeks, a use for which the blade cross-section would need to be completely re-designed... In my opinion, once the edge of this knife is re-profiled to under 18-19° per side, and sharp, it is best to keep this knife for one-time short-term emergencies, given the blade grind's re-sharpening limitations... Either that or have the blade fully re-profiled by a professional sharpener (preferrably with a full hollow grind...).
The BK-9 displayed much inferior workmaship. Even taking into account it is only 2/3 to 1/2 the price of the Hellion, I would still consider the Hellion better value in this respect, despite the higher price.
Worst cosmetic flaw on the BK-9 was that the blade was curved slightly (to the right) from heat-treating: It is probably a common issue due to the design's thin and yet broad blade. This has no fuctional effect on the blade's performance, but I consider this unacceptable. Second cosmetic issue with the BK-9 was that the blade edge was not correctly centered and lined up with the spine: The edge was straight to itself, but quite obviously misaligned with the whole knife. Neither issues has any effect on performance, but this low level of quality control places the BK-9 firmly into the "simple tool with no pride of ownership" category (from my point of view). The Hellion was perfectly ground and straight on both issues.
A Hellion design error is the weight: Most knives in this category weight in at 15-16 ounces (Trailmaster, BK-9 etc), and the Hellion is around 5-6 ounces heavier at 21 ounces. In my opinion this could have been easily avoided at no cost by a strong stick tang (full tangs are very much a modern-day fad in my opinion). That being said, this extra weight does contribute to chopping in a rearward grip, and could be of use in other ways, such as hammering of self-defense (the Hellion is probably the only 9" knife I have ever handled that could possibly crack large bones in the way a hatchet can...). It is a very unusual feeling to have so much weight concentrated into such a dense package (especially with a reasonable 3/16 inch stock), and it is in part what makes the Hellion quite unique compared to all other knives, especially with the mass that keeps increasing towards the tip.
Because of the low flat-ground saber grind on the Hellion, even when compensated for by re-sharpening it to 18° or less per side (this inevitably with a very high edge bevel), the Hellion squanders some of its chopping advantage over more thinly ground knives by having a very thick edge base, which limits deep penetration on soft wood. This is not a disadvantage on harder or dry wood, where the Hellion does live up to its claim of lower energy expenditure.
Compared to the BK-9, the biggest performance advantage of the Hellion is by far due to its superior handle, which is extremely well designed and confortable. Owing to the thicker stock, there is little vibration or shock going into the hand compared to the BK-9, which is comparatively much more tiring and painful to the ungloved hand, because it seems to fill the hand "too well" and so does not offer any "cushion", if that makes sense... The BK-9's blade feels light, and though it performs well, the performance seems to be extracted from your hand at a daunting cost... This is because the thinner BK-9 stock seems to increase hand disconfort considerably with a peculiar vibration when it hits wood. The two are supposedly of similar stock, but the BK-9 is 4.92 mm vs 5.63 mm for the Hellion, and this small difference feels absolutely huge in shock absorption.
The one area of obvious superiority for the BK-9 (besides initial sharpness) is in the interaction of the knife and sheath, and area I consider very important. The BK-9's plastic sheath insert "click-pinches" securely the blade at the base, with no movement, rattle or finish damage (something Fallkniven's Northern Light series would have much to learn from...), and "clicks" only when the blade is nearly fuly inserted, an outstanding feature: It feels exactly right in every way... The snap's round-the-handle strap then allows an even more secure and rattle-free fit, and completely prevents any blade movement within the sheath, with no edge-rubbing at any point. Velcro is peculiarly positioned behind the strap, which further enhances the knife extraction by keeping the snap fully open to prevent touching the blade: An outstanding attention to detail... Very few large knives are actually as good as the BK-9 in the sheath's just-right friction and absence of issues when taking the blade in or out...
The Hellion sheath's is similar in quality, but nowhere near as good in execution: The plastic insert is much more "generic" in feel, and not as tight a fit to the blade: A really major lowering of the impression of quality occurs when you hear the rattle: A slight rattle can only be prevented by super-glueing patches of felt and tissue inserted inside with a rod, without smearing all the insides with gel crazy glue: An art I won't go into here... The plastic insert quality appears poorer on the Hellion in any case (although the blade design's "recessed" edge prevents any edge-rubbing inside the sheath). The sheath pockets are functional but have very bulky flap closures I finally got rid of, since the pocket "mouths" have elastic bands that assist in keeping the stuff in. Another issue is the two velcro round-the-handle retaining straps: There are two of them which is good, but to prevent any blade movement you really have to to tighten their grip around the handle, and they will wear out faster than a snap: To avoid this, I rely only on the newly found tight fit of my "filled-in" sheath insert, and simply keep them laying flat under the handle for special occasions. That they can easily flatten out of the way is actually the one major advantage Velcro straps have over regular snaps...
The Hellion is in my opinion a really great and original design that is compromised by its thick low-sabre flat ground edge profile. The low-sabre grind makes sense in keeping blade mass out in front (when holding the handle at the rear of the finger choil, which is a fully secure five-finger grip, the balance point is exactly 2 inches in front of the hand, which is outstanding compared to the BK-9's 1.6 inches at best...). But the flat low-sabre grind makes a very sharp edge barely possible, and any re-sharpening in the field will yield immediate performance loss after a few touch ups: This knife should have had a deep hollow grind to improve its performance and especially its sharpenability. The fact that hollow grinds can "bind in wood" is way overblown for the harder woods in my opinion, and the general dislike of hollow grinds for chopping seems to be yet another fad, since thinner edges with more weight above them obviously reduce effort (hollow grinds also "decelerate" more gently in wood in my experience, which greatly reduce hand fatique, but that could depend on the specific grind).
A comparison of the Hellion to the 8 3/4" Chris Reeves Jereboam Mk II, which performed very similarly to the 9 1/4" BK-9 when chopping branches, but with far, far greater handle confort when bare hand. The Reeve's deep hollow grind seemed to greatly absorp impact for the hand when chopping wood, though the greater blade thickness could also have played a role, as it did for the Hellion.
Gaston
.
The BK-9 displayed much inferior workmaship. Even taking into account it is only 2/3 to 1/2 the price of the Hellion, I would still consider the Hellion better value in this respect, despite the higher price.
Worst cosmetic flaw on the BK-9 was that the blade was curved slightly (to the right) from heat-treating: It is probably a common issue due to the design's thin and yet broad blade. This has no fuctional effect on the blade's performance, but I consider this unacceptable. Second cosmetic issue with the BK-9 was that the blade edge was not correctly centered and lined up with the spine: The edge was straight to itself, but quite obviously misaligned with the whole knife. Neither issues has any effect on performance, but this low level of quality control places the BK-9 firmly into the "simple tool with no pride of ownership" category (from my point of view). The Hellion was perfectly ground and straight on both issues.
A Hellion design error is the weight: Most knives in this category weight in at 15-16 ounces (Trailmaster, BK-9 etc), and the Hellion is around 5-6 ounces heavier at 21 ounces. In my opinion this could have been easily avoided at no cost by a strong stick tang (full tangs are very much a modern-day fad in my opinion). That being said, this extra weight does contribute to chopping in a rearward grip, and could be of use in other ways, such as hammering of self-defense (the Hellion is probably the only 9" knife I have ever handled that could possibly crack large bones in the way a hatchet can...). It is a very unusual feeling to have so much weight concentrated into such a dense package (especially with a reasonable 3/16 inch stock), and it is in part what makes the Hellion quite unique compared to all other knives, especially with the mass that keeps increasing towards the tip.
Because of the low flat-ground saber grind on the Hellion, even when compensated for by re-sharpening it to 18° or less per side (this inevitably with a very high edge bevel), the Hellion squanders some of its chopping advantage over more thinly ground knives by having a very thick edge base, which limits deep penetration on soft wood. This is not a disadvantage on harder or dry wood, where the Hellion does live up to its claim of lower energy expenditure.
Compared to the BK-9, the biggest performance advantage of the Hellion is by far due to its superior handle, which is extremely well designed and confortable. Owing to the thicker stock, there is little vibration or shock going into the hand compared to the BK-9, which is comparatively much more tiring and painful to the ungloved hand, because it seems to fill the hand "too well" and so does not offer any "cushion", if that makes sense... The BK-9's blade feels light, and though it performs well, the performance seems to be extracted from your hand at a daunting cost... This is because the thinner BK-9 stock seems to increase hand disconfort considerably with a peculiar vibration when it hits wood. The two are supposedly of similar stock, but the BK-9 is 4.92 mm vs 5.63 mm for the Hellion, and this small difference feels absolutely huge in shock absorption.
The one area of obvious superiority for the BK-9 (besides initial sharpness) is in the interaction of the knife and sheath, and area I consider very important. The BK-9's plastic sheath insert "click-pinches" securely the blade at the base, with no movement, rattle or finish damage (something Fallkniven's Northern Light series would have much to learn from...), and "clicks" only when the blade is nearly fuly inserted, an outstanding feature: It feels exactly right in every way... The snap's round-the-handle strap then allows an even more secure and rattle-free fit, and completely prevents any blade movement within the sheath, with no edge-rubbing at any point. Velcro is peculiarly positioned behind the strap, which further enhances the knife extraction by keeping the snap fully open to prevent touching the blade: An outstanding attention to detail... Very few large knives are actually as good as the BK-9 in the sheath's just-right friction and absence of issues when taking the blade in or out...
The Hellion sheath's is similar in quality, but nowhere near as good in execution: The plastic insert is much more "generic" in feel, and not as tight a fit to the blade: A really major lowering of the impression of quality occurs when you hear the rattle: A slight rattle can only be prevented by super-glueing patches of felt and tissue inserted inside with a rod, without smearing all the insides with gel crazy glue: An art I won't go into here... The plastic insert quality appears poorer on the Hellion in any case (although the blade design's "recessed" edge prevents any edge-rubbing inside the sheath). The sheath pockets are functional but have very bulky flap closures I finally got rid of, since the pocket "mouths" have elastic bands that assist in keeping the stuff in. Another issue is the two velcro round-the-handle retaining straps: There are two of them which is good, but to prevent any blade movement you really have to to tighten their grip around the handle, and they will wear out faster than a snap: To avoid this, I rely only on the newly found tight fit of my "filled-in" sheath insert, and simply keep them laying flat under the handle for special occasions. That they can easily flatten out of the way is actually the one major advantage Velcro straps have over regular snaps...
The Hellion is in my opinion a really great and original design that is compromised by its thick low-sabre flat ground edge profile. The low-sabre grind makes sense in keeping blade mass out in front (when holding the handle at the rear of the finger choil, which is a fully secure five-finger grip, the balance point is exactly 2 inches in front of the hand, which is outstanding compared to the BK-9's 1.6 inches at best...). But the flat low-sabre grind makes a very sharp edge barely possible, and any re-sharpening in the field will yield immediate performance loss after a few touch ups: This knife should have had a deep hollow grind to improve its performance and especially its sharpenability. The fact that hollow grinds can "bind in wood" is way overblown for the harder woods in my opinion, and the general dislike of hollow grinds for chopping seems to be yet another fad, since thinner edges with more weight above them obviously reduce effort (hollow grinds also "decelerate" more gently in wood in my experience, which greatly reduce hand fatique, but that could depend on the specific grind).
A comparison of the Hellion to the 8 3/4" Chris Reeves Jereboam Mk II, which performed very similarly to the 9 1/4" BK-9 when chopping branches, but with far, far greater handle confort when bare hand. The Reeve's deep hollow grind seemed to greatly absorp impact for the hand when chopping wood, though the greater blade thickness could also have played a role, as it did for the Hellion.
Gaston
.
Last edited:
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- Dec 6, 2012
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All that hard work and write-up with no pic of the 9? If I didn't have a pretty good sense of humor I might consider Gaston's contrary comments offensive. 
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- Oct 3, 2014
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There have been no pictures of Becker's in this thread! Blasphemy! lol
stabman
Gold Member
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- Sep 17, 2007
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Mike Hawke knows how to fill your hand.
(most mature internet comment of the day :thumbup
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has anyone else noticed uneven grinds or not straight blades on their 9s? I haven't gotten a nine yet but haven't noticed anything like that on the others. I am also surprised to see someone unhappy with the handle as most agree that is one of the most optimal parts of the Becker line. To each their own though
While the grind lines and bevels are not "laser straight" on my 9, they are pretty dang close. So much so that it took some pretty fine measuring to discern any flaws.
The Hellion looks pretty gimmicky IMHO, kind of like the "Hawke-chete"...what's his fascination with that modified Tanto-ish point anyway?
I don't like it, no sir, don't like it one bit...
The Hellion looks pretty gimmicky IMHO, kind of like the "Hawke-chete"...what's his fascination with that modified Tanto-ish point anyway?
I don't like it, no sir, don't like it one bit...