Recommendation? Beginner with no power tools

I'm on the other side of the fence. Send out for heat treating. Heat treating can be tricky business and if not done right will give you a pore preforming blade. Just becaus your heat treat makes a hard blade does not mean that hard blade will hold an edge. Out of the steels you bought I would use the A2. Can be turned into a very fine meat cutting blade. It's one of my top choices for this kind of Knives. A2 requires a very specific heat treat and is not a back yard heat treat steel. In fact 1095 and O1 are not back yard heat treat steels. It's worth the few bucks to have someone set up to do it correctly.
 
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My advice would be to use 1084 for 2 or 3 knives. Your first knife is not gonna be pretty. It's just a fact.

Number 4-6 I would use A2 or O1 and send it to Jarod "posted above me" for heat treat. Both will knock your socks off with edge retention and sharpening ease.
 
The common denominator from the experts is heat treat...seems to me if you want yer knife to do all that you mentioned...send it out to the experts for heat treating.
 
Tracking says the steel will be here tomorrow. We are both itching to get started and have our patterns ready and a space set up in the garage for working. I've decided that we are going to use the A2 for the first three knives that each of us makes. We are going to send them to a professional heat treatment company and continue to use this option until we have decided that this hobby is for sure, for us. I have told my son that we must make at least three knives by hand before I put any more money, for tools, in this hobby. He is fired up and so am I. I hope the hours and hours spent filing will not change that. We will see :)

I have two heat treat companies picked out. One that is recommended allot on here (LINK) but the time to return says two weeks on their site so I am inclined to go with the second one (LINK) which is much quicker.

I intend to follow up in this thread with how our experience goes this first round of knives we make. Thank you everyone for your recommendations and help.
 
One more recommendation on files... use the bigges most aggressive ones you can find to do the roughing in. Color the teeth with sidewalk chalk before you start filing and clear the teeth often, you don't really "need" a file card if you have a wire brush, but a card is nice!
 
We got a File Card and chalk. We each got our own set of files. 14 inch Simonds Chip breaker all the way to fine for each of us.

Another question that I cant seem to really find a good answer for in my searches. I have made a jig that we attach the file to that will be used to hold the angle while filing. This is to be used on the actual cutting bevel and then the second bevel in a Sabre Grind. My question is how do you tell what angle your file is sitting at before you start? I'm not asking about what angle should I be using, I already know that (I have an app that tells me based on blade width, thickness, length and type of grind). I just cant figure out how to tell what angle my file is at?

Is it as simple as using one of those clear plastic protractor's from the school section at wal-mart, or is there some other method?
 
Probably the best method would be to just do the math.
Tan=Opposite/adjacent
So the "opposite" is the height from the middle of your blade to be to the bottom of your file.
The adjacent is the distance from your blade edge to the upright holding your file.
Devide the two, then take the inverse tangent of that number and it will give you the angle.
 
A.McPherson said:
Probably the best method would be to just do the math.
Tan=Opposite/adjacent
So the "opposite" is the height from the middle of your blade to be to the bottom of your file.
The adjacent is the distance from your blade edge to the upright holding your file.
Devide the two, then take the inverse tangent of that number and it will give you the angle.
Click to expand...

Some quick MS Paint I made to make sure I am understanding you: https://ibb.co/kAfawG
Green is Opposite and Red is Adjacent, right?

I think I got the "Opposite wrong". I have to. that number would only ever change if I changed thickness of stock.
 
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Ok, I don't think you need to get into any math. How about just filing some scrap that is the same width as your blade and develop a "feel" for the angle. honestly I think the table height that your blade is clamped at makes more of a difference in keeping the proper angle. Once you get the "feel" for the position of your body in perspective to the angle it makes you create when you are locked into a comfortable filing then you can make minor adjustments from there. a simple line drawn done the center of the blade edge with a marker will suffice and a file line drawn on the face of the blade a little lower then your finished profile will work. Patience and "feel" for what the file is doing will go a LONG way.
 
I've got nothing to contribute towards your question..... But...... Man! What a great way for you to spend time with your son! It would be really cool to show us some pics of the process! Just like fishing, hunting, and the camp fire. That it's easier to talk with dad about akward "son" stuff. Learning to make knives seams perfect. Just my .2 cents my friend!
 
So the "opposite" side of the triangle is the one that is farthest away from the angle you are trying to calculate.
In your picture it'll be the length from the red line to the bottom of the ring that your bar that is attached to the file passes through.

Now all of the math stuff is just finding the angle that your jig is set up to file. It has no real reflection on how your knife will function.

Olymon has a point. Just getting on it and filing is a good way to get a handle on things.

Watch Aaron Gough's (I think I'm spelling that right, sorry if I'm not Aaron!!) videos about how to use a filing jig. They are pretty dang good and will help a lot!!
 
If your work surface is level, you can use an angle cube. They can be found in digital or analog.

I know you said you weren't looking to buy anything else, but keep in mind they are often available for a fairly small pittance.
 
olymon said:
How about just filing some scrap that is the same width as your blade and develop a "feel" for the angle.
Click to expand...

I got no scrap. I'm just starting out. My steel should be here today and after we get the patterns cut out any pieces remaining will for sure be test pieces :)

Minnesota Man said:
I've got nothing to contribute towards your question..... But...... Man! What a great way for you to spend time with your son! It would be really cool to show us some pics of the process! Just like fishing, hunting, and the camp fire. That it's easier to talk with dad about akward "son" stuff. Learning to make knives seams perfect. Just my .2 cents my friend!
Click to expand...

We already spend just about every weekend together fishing. We are fanatical about our catfishing. It's beginning to get colder out now and that will be coming to an end so this will take it's place until the spring. I intend to share pics of our progress in this regardless if our first ones turn out terrible or not :)

A.McPherson said:
So the "opposite" side of the triangle is the one that is farthest away from the angle you are trying to calculate.
In your picture it'll be the length from the red line to the bottom of the ring that your bar that is attached to the file passes through.

Now all of the math stuff is just finding the angle that your jig is set up to file. It has no real reflection on how your knife will function.

Olymon has a point. Just getting on it and filing is a good way to get a handle on things.

Watch Aaron Gough's (I think I'm spelling that right, sorry if I'm not Aaron!!) videos about how to use a filing jig. They are pretty dang good and will help a lot!!
Click to expand...
NJBillK said:
If your work surface is level, you can use an angle cube. They can be found in digital or analog.

I know you said you weren't looking to buy anything else, but keep in mind they are often available for a fairly small pittance.
Click to expand...

When I was talking about no more money I was talking about no money on grinder's, forges, drill presses, large money pieces. I was going to get the angle cube you talked about, I got one bookmarked on Amazon but ended up finding this pdf that helped a whole bunch with the angle thing.
 
I assume you are in Oklahoma somewhere. Whereabouts? I'm in Edmond and could possibly help you out with your heat treatment. I'm not set up for cryo, but I have most everything else.
 
E.Carlson said:
I assume you are in Oklahoma somewhere. Whereabouts? I'm in Edmond and could possibly help you out with your heat treatment. I'm not set up for cryo, but I have most everything else.
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OKC, S. May and 89th

The A2 that we are starting with is an "air hardened in a vacuum" heat treatment. Byington is what I was planning to use, the beginner package, but if you got the expertise and know how I am not opposed to learning from someone locally :)
 
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when filing, use a basic angle finder(find a plastic one at big box hardware for less than $10). also read and practice 'draw filing' if you haven't already
 
Can't help with the vaccum, but if you were going to do the plate quench from an evenheat I could help. I've never done A2 but I'm sure the guys around here cold help with the recipe.
Just throwing it out there.
Edit: for A2, looks like that beginners package might be a good bet.
 
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I admit I tend to get very annoyed when I order something and it does not arrive when I have been told it would. I put my steel order in on Friday of last week and opted for 2 day delivery. Monday I called them and they said it was leaving for shipping that day and will be here Wednesday. it's now Thursday and no steel. Has anyone ever used Tool Steel Service of California.

What is an "online" reliable steel provider that is known for getting orders on time and has a large selection?
 
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New Jersey steel Barron
Alpha knife supply

Lots of others, look in the stickies, there's a list of suppliers there.
 
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