Beginner's guide to buying Folders

Welcome to the forum, Keats, and thank you for your post.

I think I must classify your submission as an 'opinion piece', rather than a 'guide' per se. I am a bit uncomfortable with categorizing any knife as a weapon, as it is a tool, first and foremost, IMO. As a previous poster suggested, you will more than likely change your position on many points, as have I since becoming a member here. The fun is in the discovery!

Enjoy your stay. :thumbup:
 
I think Keats made a pretty stand up effort and is doing pretty good at not getting bent out of shape despite criticism. I think he had a good idea though setting up a guide to help new folks pic out an EDC. It just might have to be done by someone with more experience and it would be handy if a moderator could make it a sticky. That way all the threads of, "I'm new help me" (Like I originally posted when I first got here : )) could be avoided.
 
For me, knives either need to be serrated or not. I'm not a fan of combo edges. I have one, and it never gets used. There is not enough of either plain or serrated on the CE knives to really be useful. I enjoy some fully serrated knives, but for the most part I prefer a sharp, plain edge on my EDC.

ETA: Some knives really shine with serrations. Hawkbills, for example, are fantastic with fully serrated edges. They have a lot of cutting power.
 
keats said:
S30V - pretty much the best steel out there...very hard, holds an edge, difficult to sharpen
CM154 - similar to S30V but even harder to sharpen
D2 - great steel, easy to sharpen, not quite as hard as the above types.
Aus8/10 - still very good steel...avoid Aus6 imho.
There are a few corrosion resistant steels that are also worth considering...one is used in the Spyderco Salt and another is used in some Benchmade Griptilian clones.

Anything other than the above, I would avoid. Are they horrible? no. Will they cut things? yes. They just seem cheap to me...
2. blade length
imho, if you are looking for a tactical blade, the longer the better...something in the area of 4". For non-tactical, urban, concealed utility knives, around 3 inches is sufficient. Check with your State regarding knife laws. There are people who think the lighter the better...I disagree. For me the knife doesn't have to weigh less than 2 oz. I have some heavier ones that I carry without even noticing the weight.

3. lock - getting to the heart and soul here...frame and liner locks rely on bent steel that slides into place behind the blade to lock it in place. Do they work? yeah. Do I like them? NO. I hate liner and frame locks and will not buy any more of them. The Sebenza 21 is generally considered an excellent blade...and it is! great steel, craftsmanship...frame lock...part of the frame moves in behind the blade based on the fact that it is slightly bent. You have to straighten that piece of steel out to close it. It is sound..I just don't like them. I have to admit that most of the top combat folders and big names use liner or frame locks.

Locks I like...Benchmade Axis..great lock...SOG Arc lock, lock backs (many Bucks use lock back).

4. Handle material - a lot of handles are G10, some are plastic...I haven't met a handle material that I wasn't ok with. G10 seems a little more solid, but the zytel stuff or fiberglass seem just fine.

5. Serration..imho, any blade that you're going to carry every day as a utility knife should have partial serration...for seat belt cutting, any kind of sawing, the serration is nice. Rescue knives are often fully serrated and don't have a stabbing point.

6. Blade shape/functionality/look - really a personal preference here...blade shapes can offer some different functionality, but the bottom line is, do you want to cut stuff and is the knife supposed to be a weapon. If it is, you need a stabbing point.

7. Make - lot of great knife makers out there...I am currently partial to Benchmade, Spyderco and Buck. Ideally, I would like to see that the knife was made in the US.

My current blade searches are for S30V or D2 blades with axis or lock back locking mechanisms, partiallly serrated, around 3" (not looking for a weapon--for that I'd suggest Striders, Zero Tolerance, some Cold Steel blades, the Gerber Applegate Fairbairn is nice--liner lock though I think) I consider the blade shape, functionality and look after I find something that fits the above critieria.

Some current suggestions: I absolutely love the Spyderco Native S30V version for somewhere between 55-70 bucks. I also like the new Benchmade Bone collector line and the Harley Davidsons for some different, more classic looks all in the $100+ range that I've seen. Also, the Buck site has
a customizable knife build system that can set you up with a classic hunting folder in S30V steel with a lock back for around 100 bucks...handle is configurable for different looks.

Hope this helps you skip some of the junk I bought early on, and still keep the fun of discovering WOW, this is one nice knife...

K~
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There is more wrong in that post than I've seen in a loooong while.

Sounds more like an opinion piece than a guide, but good try :D
 
Your beginners guide isn't bad advice, but it's based on your opinion mostly. Even the preferred type of steel can be different for everyone. I know plenty of people that prefer an easy to sharpen steel over the steel that you claim is the best of them all, S30V.

Furthermore, you talk about locks, the ones you like and the ones you don't. However, you left out friction folders and other non-locking knives. Just saying :)
 
Pete1977 said:
how so? I have 2 knives in my pocket and they are both fully serrated. I am far from a knife noob :)



serrations are easy to sharpen with the sharpmaker
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I think he meant partially serrated blades more than full SE. I personally prefer PE knives but I do have a Spyderco Native with full SE and there are a few others I'm interested in but only if they are fully serrated. I see many pics of folks on here who clearly have more knife experience with me that have fully serrated blades but I never see them with partial se
 
I'm wouldn't consider CPM S30V neither "very hard"(even 61HRC which is rare isn't all that hard) nor hard to sharpen, and 154CM or CPM 154 will be even easier. If you compare 154CM vs. CPM S30V vs. steel compsotions, you'll see 4% Vanadium in later, which makes it more difficult to sharpen amongst other things.
D2 can go up to 64HRC, and out of those steels listed probably it is more entitled to "very hard" status.
 
scarysharp said:
There is more wrong in that post than I've seen in a loooong while.

Sounds more like an opinion piece than a guide, but good try :D
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I'm not gonna lie, once I saw his take on D2 sharpening I immediately stopped reading and scrolled down to the browse responses first :p

Really seems like the heart is in the right place but just too ambitious of an undertaking for OP's level of knowledge of the subject; moreso influenced by a personal opinion than overarching truth within the field. Kudos to you Keats for putting yourself out there though, it's noble attempt to help out those who are new to the hobby. :thumbup:
 
Well Keats, you do deserve an E for effort.

You made of a classic mistake that relative newcomers to the online knife discussion world sometimes make.

You professed your expertise, not realizing that when experts do that, their expertise usually gets picked apart. When people new to knives do that...they typically get eaten alive.

It's kinda like the guy holding a handful of dog crap who says "Look what I almost stepped in!"

But don't worry about it too much...the folks here are usually pretty friendly. Hang around, read a lot, you'll learn stuff...maybe redo your guide in a few months.
 
Nathan Ihrke said:
I think he meant partially serrated blades more than full SE. I personally prefer PE knives but I do have a Spyderco Native with full SE and there are a few others I'm interested in but only if they are fully serrated. I see many pics of folks on here who clearly have more knife experience with me that have fully serrated blades but I never see them with partial se
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I have experienced that people who aren't "knife guys" but use knives day to day and in under hard use, prefer 1/2 serrated over plain edged. I worked for 2 years on tugs and barges on the Illinois river and 90% of knives were 1/2 serrated. Even guys who used combo edged knives and lost them, then used plain edged knives, preferred the combo edge blade. They don't know much about knives but they do know about using them, and they know what works.
 
I think a lot of knife guys prefer all PE or SE but there are plenty of folks who know what they are doing that prefer combo... It's all preference, I was just pointing out what I notice here on the forums
 
keats said:
....

Generally it seems like, plain edge for slicing...serration for sawing. Is it better to have a saw? yeah, but I can't fit one in my pocket. ....
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About the saw...yeah...you kinda can fit one in your pocket. Take a look at the Vic Farmer, a Gerber of Fiskars Folding Saw, or SOG Revolver.
 
Pete1977 said:
I have experienced that people who aren't "knife guys" but use knives day to day and in under hard use, prefer 1/2 serrated over plain edged. I worked for 2 years on tugs and barges on the Illinois river and 90% of knives were 1/2 serrated. Even guys who used combo edged knives and lost them, then used plain edged knives, preferred the combo edge blade. They don't know much about knives but they do know about using them, and they know what works.
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I think that has a lot to do with how sharp or not the knives were.

Ever try cutting though rope with a dull blade, or even one that is just OK.

A really sharp blade will go through rope like a hot knife though butter, I know because of the thousands of cuts I have made on rope with extremely sharp blades. Even when they start to dull some they still cut through it easy, after like 100+ cuts for most steels that I have tested.
 
Cudos to those of you defending Keats, his heart was in the right place and he tried to offer help to newbies, nothing wrong with that. some of you may not agree with his "guide" but it was HIS guide. if you want to post your version of this then by all means go ahead and do it. no sense in ripping his post apart though, constructive criticism is one thing, but being rude is another. everyone was new to knives at one time or another, just remember that.
 
Ankerson said:
I think that has a lot to do with how sharp or not the knives were.

Ever try cutting though rope with a dull blade, or even one that is just OK.

A really sharp blade will go through rope like a hot knife though butter, I know because of the thousands of cuts I have made on rope with extremely sharp blades. Even when they start to dull some they still cut through it easy, after like 100+ cuts for most steels that I have tested.
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Not really. There is a difference between cutting clean manila rope and cutting dirty rope made of modern high strength materials. I've dulled a very respectable knife companies S30V with 2 cuts into 3/8th inch rope. The rope actually scratched the finish on the blade.

I cut a lot of rope in my job ;)

In my experience a highly polished plain edge is the least useful in cutting rope. Especially polypropylene or other plastic rope. A coarse plain edge is moderately better. Half serrated even more so, and finally fully serrated. The diameter of the rope makes a big difference too. Cutting through 2 inch hawser is going to dull any knife.

It has to do with the difference between experience through testing and experience through finding what works for people who use knives daily. I would rather be using a dull CE blade when my life depends on it than a dull plain edge. Those 2 inches of teeth might be the life saver.
 
Pete1977 said:
Not really. There is a difference between cutting clean manila rope and cutting dirty rope made of modern high strength materials. I've dulled a very respectable knife companies S30V with 2 cuts into 3/8th inch rope. The rope actually scratched the finish on the blade.

I cut a lot of rope in my job ;)

In my experience a highly polished plain edge is the least useful in cutting rope. Especially polypropylene or other plastic rope. A coarse plain edge is moderately better. Half serrated even more so, and finally fully serrated. The diameter of the rope makes a big difference too. Cutting through 2 inch hawser is going to dull any knife.

It has to do with the difference between experience through testing and experience through finding what works for people who use knives daily. I would rather be using a dull CE blade when my life depends on it than a dull plain edge. Those 2 inches of teeth might be the life saver.
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It's the same as cutting through dirty carpet or even worse old dirty carpet padding. That will dull just about any blade to butter knife dull very fast.

Thickness has a lot to do with it also, 1" or 2" rope will take a toll on any blade especially if it's dirty.

Kinda like cutting cardboard, but a lot worse, I have cuts tons of cardboard over the past 20+ years.

Dirty anything is going to take a huge toll on any blade.

That dirty rope is likely why I used to see a lot of Machetes on boats, so they could chop through it instead of trying to slice it when in a hurry.
 
Ankerson said:
It's the same as cutting through dirty carpet or even worse old dirty carpet padding. That will dull just about any blade to butter knife dull very fast.

Thickness has a lot to do with it also, 1" or 2" rope will take a toll on any blade especially if it's dirty.

Kinda like cutting cardboard, but a lot worse, I have cuts tons of cardboard over the past 20+ years.

Dirty anything is going to take a huge toll on any blade.

That dirty rope is likely why I used to see a lot of Machetes on boats, so they could chop through it instead of trying to slice it when in a hurry.
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I thought about putting one on mine but there isn't much room to swing it. Plus if there is an emergency where a line needs to be cut it is most often under immense strain. Fishing schooners used to keep an axe or hatchet by the anchor line in case another schooner parted her cable and was drifting down onto them.

When we spliced hawsers we usually cut it with a hacksaw. Though a serrated Byrd Rescue worked better than the saw. The saw-teeth got gummed up with the duct tape glue.
 
Pete1977 said:
I thought about putting one on mine but there isn't much room to swing it. Plus if there is an emergency where a line needs to be cut it is most often under immense strain. Fishing schooners used to keep an axe or hatchet by the anchor line in case another schooner parted her cable and was drifting down onto them.

When we spliced hawsers we usually cut it with a hacksaw. Though a serrated Byrd Rescue worked better than the saw. The saw-teeth got gummed up with the duct tape glue.
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I can understand that, an AXE could be the ticket. :)
 
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