Being Cheap didn't work. Need Advice.

J

jefffoxsr

Joined
Dec 24, 2003
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32
See a Picture of the broken knife blade by clicking the link on page 2 of this thread at the third post (post #23)(by Cliff)

See more info at the bottom on my second post.

I am a beginner.

I bought the Ritter Mini for edc, which is great.

For camping I bought the Benchmade Rant Model# 10505. The steel is called N690. (this was the reference to cheap, $38)

While using it to split firewood, the blade literally broke.

Now I would like to get a knife that will do the job (chores in general) without breaking.

I would like a fixed blade under 5" in blade length.
I would like to limit the price to $200. I noticed the TOPS knives. There are several under $200.

As a beginner I have no idea what steel to get for my needs. There are ton of manufacturers too. I am open to any manufacturer

If you have knife make and model or knife steel recommendations I would appreciate it.
 
Were you batonning the knife? If so, there was a recent post explaining that proper batonning requires the handle to be horizontal to the blade or slightly above it.

Never baton a knife with the handle lower than the blade because of the severe stresses placed at the area wher the rear of the blade meets the handle.
Hope this helps.
 
For basic beating the crap out of a knife, try Swamp Rat. They can take a lot of abuse. It depends on how you were using the Benchmade.
 
a blade under 4" makes it tougher to provide options. Smaller knives are not generally made to withstand hard use / shock, they will often be made of more brittle steel. Whereas larger blades are more likely to be made of steels that withstand shock, like A2, L6, 5160, etc. That said, here are some manufacturers to check out:

Busse - (definitely quality but hard to find and probably too expensive)
Swamp Rat - http://www.swamprat.com/knives.html#bandicoot see the bandicoot and howling rat, right up your alley
Strider - http://www.tadgear.com/edged tools/wp_sp.htm is one example of their small stout WP
Fallkniven - http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/fallkniven check the F1, S1, H1
TOPS - you're onto them already, http://store.yahoo.com/topsknivesstore/sportsman.html, I think these are slightly overpriced
Ranger Knives - check the shiv, http://www.rangerknives.com/Knives/index.html, bare bones but solid

Camillus' Becker line is a great deal for the money - the BK11 might be too small and the BK 10 too long, but there are well-regarded http://www.1sks.com/store/becker.html

Also Cold Steel's Carbon V knives are pretty good - the Master Hunter might work for you http://www.coldsteel.com/fixed-blades-master-hunter.html

These aren't all under 4", don't know if that's a legal requirement for you or not.

Some custom makers to consider
Bill Siegle
Newt Livesay
Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works
BOB DOZIER

In the past I would have immediately said John Greco b/c he had a line of knives he produced that were outstanding values. However it appears (thankfully) that he got oiver his limiting illness and has returned to hand-making specialty stuff. If you cou7ld find an old Greco Cub Companion you would be totlaly set. They were about $50 and practically indestructable!

I'm sure others will suggest more. I'll try to find some links to add to this post.
 
If you're going to split wood with the knife it is safest if you use a non-stainless blade. For a 4" blade length the Swamp Rat Howling Rat would be my first suggestion. If you could tolerate a thick 6" blade then a Ranger Ready Detachment Series RD6 would be virtually indestructable.
http://www.rangerknives.com/Knives/index.html

For a knife with a thinner blade you might try the Camillus/Becker Knife and Tool BK10. http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/becker.html


If you liked the general demensions of the Benchmade Rant you might try one of the special Cabelas Alaskan Guide Series Buck Vanguards which has an S30V alloy blade. Since it doesn't have a slab tang it would not be my first choice for battoning, but it is a great general design.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/c...matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=alaskan+vanguard&noImage=0
 
I'd say your problem wasn't not spending enough, but choosing the wrong tool for the job. You need something beefier for beating through firewood.

Many of the above recommended knives should survive. While your knife failing was certainly caused by abuse, I'd call Benchmade and report the failure. I sent in a knife that had the blade ruined by cutting a live extension cord (BIG arc bites) and they replaced it.

John
 
jefffoxsr said:
For camping I bought the Benchmade Rant Model# 10505. The steel is called N690. (this was the reference to cheap, $38)

While using it to split firewood, the blade literally broke.

...

If you have knife make and model or knife steel recommendations I would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Umm, as previous threads on N690 on Bladeforums indicate it's actually a very decent (stainless) steel. As I'm unfamiliar with the type of knife you used I can only speculate that your job required an axe instead of a knife :D Are you sure you weren't doing something wrong (like twisting the blade while embedded in wood and/or banging really hard at the wrong spot on the spine) and that the blade of that knife wasn't just too thin for this kind of a job ?

A $0.00 wooden wedge (a piece of wood found on the floor trimmed into wedge shape) would probably work better for that particular purpose :confused:

Any steel can be abused to the point of breaking so you should reevaluate what you were doing first and only then decide what exactly it is that you're after. If you need an axe, buy an axe. $200 will get you both - decent axe and decent knife (and cash left over for other goodies).
 
digdeep said:
Were you batonning the knife? If so, there was a recent post explaining that proper batonning requires the handle to be horizontal to the blade or slightly above it.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter what the orientation of the handle is to the blade, tempered steels will ignore you pounding on them with a piece of wood, assuming the steel doesn't have a flaw.
[*]

If you are hitting them with a piece of steel or rock you can induce local fracture at the site of impact but the actual load stress is insignificant compared to the tensile failure point.

You would only need to be concerned about this if you were using an edge quenched knife with an annealed spine, as you can bend them trivially. For any spring hardened or high knife this isn't a factor.

The Last Confederate said:
Here's an idea...buy a hatchet.
Click to expand...
For a lot of wood you can split it much faster by batoning than with a hatchet, especially if the wood is knotty. The hatcet isn't heavy enough to cleave it directly and the wood isn't heavy enough to inertially split it effectively. A small piece of knotty spruce will ignore even a small axe while a decent knife will still easily be batoned right through it.

jmxcpter said:
I'd say your problem wasn't not spending enough, but choosing the wrong tool for the job.
Click to expand...
No, he got a lemon. Unless his baton was a maul. People baton with $5 Mora's, 1/8" thick or less. It doesn't require much of a knife, the only real concern is turning the edge.

faramir said:
Are you sure you weren't doing something wrong (like twisting the blade while embedded in wood and/or banging really hard at the wrong spot on the spine) and that the blade of that knife wasn't just too thin for this kind of a job ?
Click to expand...
None of that matters unless his uncle was a silverback gorilla.

A $0.00 wooden wedge (a piece of wood found on the floor trimmed into wedge shape) would probably work better for that particular purpose...
Click to expand...
It would be far less effective, wooden wedges are good for splitting large rounds, after you have started a metal one and the round just eats it and looks at you wanting more. They also have problems with knots on small woods, which was likely the case here as otherwise the wood would have likely split trivially.

-Cliff


[*]aside from extremes of course like a fillet knife, or a 1/16" hollow ground utility knife made from M2 at 65 HRC, etc. .
 
I'm guessing a mora would be a softer/tougher steel than what benchmade hardens their N690 to. If you want something in the 4 inch range and are perfectly willing to spend 200 dollars than the Busse Company store has the Meaner Street Model T for 187. I'll guarantee that won't break batoning through wood. The Howling rat is also a good choice, and I think a smaller Becker (campanion?) would be more than strong enough to shrug off any sort of less than ideal batoning technique. There are a number of other knives for less than 50 dollars that should be capable, but those are the ones I wouldn't worry a bit about breaking should I be less than careful.
 
For under 200 bucks I would suggest

1.-An Estwing sportsmans ax for chopping wood (32.95)
i511061sq02.jpg


2.-A Swamp Rat "Howling Rat" (88.95) for use as a camp knife.
howlingratsm.jpg


3. Spend the extra 78 bucks on......
9C050.jpg


:D :D :D
 
I don't think "throwing money at the problem" will solve anything.

You can break an expensive knife just as easy as you can a cheapie.

My Ontario 12" machete has seen alot more abuse than any other knife I have ever used.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
How about a Camillus/Becker BK10 and a BK9?...That is a GREAT combo.
 
Wow. Thanks for all the responses. I would like to post a picture of the damaged knife, but when I hit the image button it asks for a url. If someone can host it that would be cool.

Here some more info:

I usually use an axe on regular firewood. The wood I was using the knife on was called "face wood" I think. The kind you buy at the campground that is just bark and a little more wood. I'll split a little tinder off of it to start the fire. I've only had the knife for a few months and have done it before. It works really good on this thin wood. This is my first fixed blade.

I will hold the handle of the knife. I will use another small piece of wood to hit the top of the knife that comes out the other side of the wood. I use a piece of wood to hit and I don't hit super hard because it's not needed. I'm not really strong either.

I'd love to post a pic of the knife. It broke in a very strange way.

Thanks again, and I'll check into all the knives suggested.

Thanks.
 
All three for right around 200 bucks (give or take 10 or 20 depending on handle materials)
wallymuk.jpg


Why buy just one new toy?



Bwahahahahahahaha ;)
 
jefffoxsr said:
If someone can host it that would be cool.
Click to expand...
Email it to me.

I will loosely hold the handle of the knife. I will use another small piece of wood to hit the top of the knife that comes out the other side of the wood. I use a small piece of wood to hit and I don't hit hard because it's not needed.
Click to expand...
There is no need to be that light :

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/CliffStamp/Spyderco/paramilitary/baton_paramilitary.jpg

Yeah that rock was the baton.

Should I stick to s30v since people say it's better?
Click to expand...
No, it isn't better for that type of work.

-Cliff
 
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