Belts per knife?

[Geoff Flato]

I ground the same way, chucking belts after hardly any use, until I tried the ceramic belts that actually cut well their whole life. Norton r999b, redheat, or 3m 984f. They end up being substantially cheaper than vsm in terms of dollars per knife the way I grind.

 

[Kentucky]

absolutely. pay $3.50 for a junk belt and get maybe one knife. pay $10 and get 7-10 knives. No brainer after you actually break down and pay it. We were all tightwads with abrasives in the beginning

 

[Brock Cutlery]

I have tried a million different things but in order for me to grind say a 240mm chef knife I use about 30$ worth of belts in something like aebl and about $60 worth of belts in 20CV.
I use 1-2 yellow 3m 967s and then 4-8 of the 947A belts . Yes that is belts per knife. I find that in order to grind the edge and especially the tip thin enough in hardened steel I need an absolutely fresh ceramic belt.
Once they loose that initial bite they are only good for pre HT grinding. Now of course this gets the job done within a couple hours.

edit to add: I am finding the silica carbide 220 cork belt as being extremely useful and long lasting. well worth the money

What thickness are you starting with? I ask because I'm in about the same place. I'm using 3.5mm 52100 @63.
It is a lot of steel to remove.
I probably use 3 Cub 40's, then 2-3 60's, then 2 120's then 2-3 220's.
From there I use finer belts, but the ones I use last forever.
All of them are used wet after HT.

 

[timos-]

With Stainless, I will start with say 1/8" steel. I do about 50% of the grind pre heat treat. Post heat treat I use one 967 to get me 80% there, maybe two if it is a full size chef. It is always that last 20% that seems to use a bunch of brand new belts, Ive been using atleast 4 of the 947As @ about $5 per belt. I have probably 50 of these belts hanging around now, with plenty of life left just not enough to do what i need to do. Oh well Ill have to start a large batch of pre heat treat ground blades or something..After that I use silica carbide belts for the 20CV..about 4 of the 220 grit to finish a large blade. I use the trizact structured "gator" belts for aebl and nitroV A300, A160, A100 and they seem to last forever. After that its a fairly quick with redline 180 grit and then 280 grit ...I find this is a pretty comparable finish to alot of the mid range J knives.

 

[Brock Cutlery]

With Stainless, I will start with say 1/8" steel. I do about 50% of the grind pre heat treat. Post heat treat I use one 967 to get me 80% there, maybe two if it is a full size chef. It is always that last 20% that seems to use a bunch of brand new belts, Ive been using atleast 4 of the 947As @ about $5 per belt. I have probably 50 of these belts hanging around now, with plenty of life left just not enough to do what i need to do. Oh well Ill have to start a large batch of pre heat treat ground blades or something..After that I use silica carbide belts for the 20CV..about 4 of the 220 grit to finish a large blade. I use the trizact structured "gator" belts for aebl and nitroV A300, A160, A100 and they seem to last forever. After that its a fairly quick with redline 180 grit and then 280 grit ...I find this is a pretty comparable finish to alot of the mid range J knives.

Very similar to me, but I'm doing almost all post-HT grinding now. I could probably go a bit thinner on my stock to start with, but I like a thick spine above the heal.

 

[SamaraVolk]

I have a 2x72. I profile with an old belt as well as my 45's. I use a brand new belt for bevels. I am lucky to get one knife from a belt

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

We probably consume about 5 belts grinding and sharpening a knife, and that's using carbide to remove the majority of the material in a mill.

We use a lot a belts (thousands per year).

 

[E.Carlson]

anyone try the Hermmes ceramics pops is sellin now

I'm not a fan. The ceramics in 60 I got to try out track all over the place. The AO ones gunk up my platen as soon as I put them on.
It's the only brand I've tried that give me wobbly tracking like that. I've been trying to use them up on chefs knives, but I can't use them on anything with a plunge.

 

[Geoff Flato]

I've stopped using Hermes belts since I had a number of splices blow apart, one of them ended with a fillet knife most of the way through my left hand.

 

[Natlek]

Could be, I found them slow and hot compared to the belts I'm used to. Maybe that'd be different with a much faster grinder. I've also only used cs910y and cs912y in 60 grit. Other klingspor belts are great though.

Here is what I have grind with one Klingspor CS 910Y belt so far .....

And this two , both are HSS .........sent them today to friend for opening hole for pins

Here is knife from 8mm file , full flat grind

And here how look belt now , no sign of worn ?

And I am beginner ? So I am a wizard or it is speed of belt factor ?
PS .The only thing I do before grinding / thank you for that advice / is that I grind edge freehand about one-two mm. on bench grinder .

 

[john april]

speaking of tracking, i do not recall ever getting a 3m that was wobbly. they all run super straight. when i switch belts they track almost exactly like the one before. at 220 i switch brands and the belt is usually 3/8" to the left or right of the platen on each belt thereafter. its a small detail but i think it speaks of the quality. natlek, that belt does not even look used !

 

[Geoff Flato]

I just found the klingspor to cut really slow and hot right out of the box. I tossed the few I had before they showed any wear at all

 

[AVigil]

I was given some of the Hermes ceramics to try out. They are just ok and not outstanding. There are better for the money.

I due use a lot of Hermes 346 in 100 and 220. They work great for me at working the plunge after a 50 grit and removing previous scratches.

 

[Natlek]

speaking of tracking, i do not recall ever getting a 3m that was wobbly. they all run super straight. when i switch belts they track almost exactly like the one before. at 220 i switch brands and the belt is usually 3/8" to the left or right of the platen on each belt thereafter. its a small detail but i think it speaks of the quality. natlek, that belt does not even look used !

No mistake my friend , that's the belt .And short one , 50 X 1020 cm

 

[Natlek]

I just found the klingspor to cut really slow and hot right out of the box. I tossed the few I had before they showed any wear at all

At what speed you try ? I run on 30 m/s and on 50 m/s ...............Hey , I don't know yet what is slow cut what is fast cut to judge .......this is my first ceramic belt .Zirconia and AO I don't count and I don't like them ...get dull on HSS in two pass .

 

[DanF]

This thread is quite a primer on belts, thanks to all!

 

[Geoff Flato]

At what speed you try ? I run on 30 m/s and on 50 m/s ...............Hey , I don't know yet what is slow cut what is fast cut to judge .......this is my first ceramic belt .Zirconia and AO I don't count and I don't like them ...get dull on HSS in two pass .

I'd have to do some math to figure that out. I still run the single speed grinder I built when I first started out. A new variable speed machine is next on my new tool list.
Its not slow but its not real fast.
Maybe they work better on a faster grinder, but I found them to cut horribly compared to the Norton (and even the vsm) belts. If I'd never used anything else I'm sure they'd seem great, just like how Norton blaze seemed great until I tried anything else

 

[Rick Marchand]

We probably consume about 5 belts grinding and sharpening a knife, and that's using carbide to remove the majority of the material in a mill.

We use a lot a belts (thousands per year).

I am very intrigued and confused by this statement, Nathan. To me, it seems insane. Do you have a pic of what you would consider to be a worn belt?... AND .... would you consider shipping me your old belts if I pay shipping and handling?
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Edit to add .... Matt just reminded me that I have no experience with 4V... so yeah, I may be talking out of my forge port.
*******

 

[Busto]

I am very intrigued and confused by this statement, Nathan. To me, it seems insane. Do you have a pic of what you would consider to be a worn belt?... AND .... would you consider shipping me your old belts if I pay shipping and handling?

I like the way you think!!!!!

 

[Don Hanson III]

I am very intrigued and confused by this statement, Nathan. To me, it seems insane. Do you have a pic of what you would consider to be a worn belt?... AND .... would you consider shipping me your old belts if I pay shipping and handling?
*******
Edit to add .... Matt just reminded me that I have no experience with 4V... so yeah, I may be talking out of my forge port.
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^This^