Benchmade and Allan Elishewitz! What gives?

Originally posted by rogue_spear
After BM and Emerson ended their work relationship, the BM970 & BM975 were discontinued.
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That is because Ernie wanted to make those knives himself.

I have not heard any news about Terzuola's or Elishewitz's designs being discontinued as of yet. So far, they will be left in the line up. That's the latest word straight from the company!
 
Originally posted by lifter4Him
If you have to guess, and read into Allen's quote of "the direction they're going", you'd have to think it was about production costs and making the knives cheaper but without the same quality.

Dave
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:eek: :eek: :eek: without the same quality? Correct me if I am wrong but BM don't have what you might call a stirling reputation with QC in the past and while I have yet to see an improvement myself... Going back to a lower level of QC just plain suxs.

We the ELU are the QC now it seems more than ever...:mad: :barf:

And there was little old me thinking of getting a AFCK II in M2 as I was told they had sorted out the problems and improved QC. Not good BM not good at all.

Oh yes that crazy 440C Kris blade Balisong... $800! Get outa here!:rolleyes:

I own a 42a and like it a lot, but $800? Thats REAL custom prices.

I like the look of the Griptilian though, well worth the price and a very nice knife, I am thinking about the dropoint as a EDC.
 
I THOUGHT I had already put in my one cent opinion on Benchmade's move to again force out another Fine knifemaker. I had hoped BM was heading in the right direction, but they seem to start fixing what is broke and then slit their throat again. I will re-word my personal opinion......Benchmade better wake up!!!!!wolf:rolleyes:
 
I think I'll shy away from BM's stuff for a while.....see what sorts out. I was planning on buying one of the 690's too :(


Dexter- hello from the home of Krispy Kreme :p
 
Welcome to the forums, Nosamk! In fact, I work right down the road from KK's HQ :) Nothin' like the smell of another batch of hot doughnuts wafting through the air in the morn....
 
IMO, in many ways the QC at Benchmade has been improving the last couple years. I don't see the addition of lower-priced knives like the Griptilian as being a bad thing, I can't see how it could be. It's a hell of a tool and is a lot better made than BM's earlier lightweight models (i.e., Ascent series), even the old Panther, which was well-made. Like any company, it has to survive financially, and I would think a large part of that would be to supply the market that produces less expensive but still high-quality working knives. Besides, it's not like the 550 series is a cheapie knife; for most people it would still be a high-end folder.

Back to Elishewitz, I love most of the designs he has done with BM. I am not happy to see him leave the design team, but it's happened and that's it. I will continue to buy BM knives like I always have; if I like a particular knife design I'll buy it, regardless who collaborated on it or if it's an in-house design.
Jim
 
Originally posted by The General
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Oh yes that crazy 440C Kris blade Balisong... $800! Get outa here!:rolleyes:
It's 600$, not 800$, if that makes you feel any better. And again, don't buy it if you don't like the price.
 
Gator

The first 25 produced were priced at $800. The rest of the limited production run are at $600.

Just for clarification.:)
 
I don't have the answer about what made these makers quit. I can tell you that, after 4 years in this industry, I have yet to meet a company that Benchmade could call a friend. They may have friends in the industry, don't get me wrong, but I just haven't met one. There are miles and miles of burnt bridges. So, it isn't a surprise to me.

Allen, by the way, is a very talented designer and knifemaker. He will do just fine for himself and will enhance the product line of any manufacturer who wishes to make use of those talents. Take care.
 
Thanks Knifenerd! It was the first 25 I was refering to of course and yes I did so the posting over a number of days on the BM Forum of 'taster' pics of this knife. Quite funny when the staff were offered first dibs. Perhaps it was a test to see if any of the staff were over-paid? ;)

I am putting out some feelers over this and depending on what the people in the know are willing to say I may have an answer in a matter of days. However some things are best left alone and the more I probe the more this is looking distastful. I might just drop this hot potato.:(

I will see how it pans out and decide what to post as and when...

Believe it or not I am aware of what is and is not acceptable on the Forums and yes I do have contacts in the know... I am not blowing hot and cold but I am trying to be sensible for once and I honestly don't like what I am hearing on this...:eek:
 
We can speculate all we want. The fact is, unless Benchmade or the makers mentioned tell us what happened we will never know for sure what the reasons were. It is unlikely that that will happen. It is not in Benchmade's best interests to talk about internal matters and the makers probably had contracts that forbid them from talking about these things.

All we can tell for sure is that there were some differences of opinion that have left some great makers more available for collaborations with other companies. That is a good thing. The fact that they will no longer be working with Benchmade is Benchmade's lose.
 
Ok I have an anwer of sorts. I might add that this is a response from someone in the know and MAY or MAY NOT refer to previous practice and not what has happened now. Don't bother asking where this came from but I can 100% asure you it is on the level from my 'source'

Here is a part of the message with no editing or other stuff.

"Benchmade was in the habit of asking its custom
makers to come up with a design. Benchmade would then take
elements from each of the custom makers designs, make a single
knife, then not pay the custom makers royalties because, Benchmade
argued, they didn't make their knife. Benchmade would tell them it was
designed by Benchamde, so they they didn't owe them a royalty check.
They evidently made this a regular practice, and so everyone left.
Elishewitz came along and got involved with them because at the time
he was a new, young maker and probably didn't know any of this was
going on. "


I cannot speak for the truth of this, but it is what I have been told and I am passing it on and nothing more. It is not right of me to comment on this, so I won't. I was thinking of glossing over the message but what the hell. I must admit I was expecting worse somehow.
 
General,

That "answer" of yours looks very promising and convincing :)
And what happened next? BM casted a spell on those knifemakers to never speak of such injustice? Something else?

Ok, A.E. was inexperienced and young, but he worked there for several years and no matter how inexperienced you are this type of thing can be done once, after all if it is the detail of your design you should be ale to recognize in and react accordingly?
 
Yes I must admit the theory does seem to have a slight problem in that BM were quite openly advertising many models as being designed by Custom makers. Thus I was more than a little surprised at this 'answer'.

As to the magical spell, yes they exist! Its called a non-disclosure contract and it is pretty much standard nowerdays. Would you like a law suit? Me either!

However, think about it. Read the 'answer' and what if you have a number of custom makers who submit designs and you take one element from this and one from that and low and behold you 'just happen' to have a knife with a number of features...

Now if done with care many would not notice this after all, there is nothing new under the sun and all that!

I might add though as Fred stated, BM have burned a lot of bridges, or so it seems! A lot of custom makers have walked away and you just don't see that as often with other companies... Plus the very post by A E is anything if not critical of BM!

As I said though, I don't have all the answers and this is just one possibility. Lets not forget that A E designed some of the best BM knives (heck the Nimravious is AMAZING!). I hope he hooks up with another company like Spyderco and we can see affordable knives again. Customs are the best, but they also cost! I can't afford customs all the time, but I still want new models that are good quality. Is that so much to ask?:confused:
 
This is a lot of hooey over nothing. The reason they fell out was, surprise, surprise, money. Isn't that always it?

But it doesn't matter to anyone else. If you like Allen's stuff, buy it. If you like BM's stuff, buy it.

If you don't, don't.

Simple isn't it?
 
Losing Terzuola or Elishewitz can effect BM's sales in the future. I think a lot of people buy CRKT and Spyderco because of their talented designers and these companies are signing up more and more talent.
 
Originally posted by rogue_spear
Does anyone know if Elishewitz is working with another knife company now? I wish he worked with CRKT.
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Donno. I personally wouldn't want Nimravus in AUS8A instead of M2.
Or Ares w/o axis lock.
It's very unfortunate things are that way and probably BM's could've handled it better and never let this to happen.
The thing is BM, one way or the other is(was) being innovative.

P.S. General, I do not think there's something like "Idea theft non- disclosure" agreement :)
 
Knifenerd, I believe that the first 25 of the special bali-songs were priced at $600.00. I'm having breakfast with my buddy who is a Benchmade fan this Saturday. BTW he has #23 of the first 25. He happens to be friendly with a guy who works at BM, so he is on the special "short list" of people who get first shot at these kind of knives.
 
What kind of disturbs me is why anyone thinks it is their business what happened between Benchmade and A.E and Bob T. This is not pointed at anyone, just wondering. Maybe both had good reasons.
 
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