Benchmade Discussion without Politics or Insults

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northside1

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You can discuss BKC as much as you would like, but the politics and insults that were in numerous threads that have since been locked have no place here, take that shit to the appropriate sub forum.
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This is a thread to post about the recent Benchmade topic regarding their assistance in cutting up guns and their political donations.

I am not sure how the topic can be discussed without touching on politics (and not sure why politics surrounding the world of knives can't be discussed) but I think it is such an incredibly important topic for the knife community that it is a shame that the other threads were locked.

Keep it civil and maybe the moderators will allow this one to stay. Don't fall victim to industry shills that will attempt to derail the thread by inciting discussion that will give mods a reason for it to be closed.


I will start. I think the extreme reaction is because the community feels like they were stabbed in the back. har har. For me at least, Benchmade had an unexplainable cult like draw that was appealing. Their designs were amazing. The quality was amazing (although assembly is lacking at times). They're an American company. They appeared to be supportive of the things I was. They had a rabid community of others just like me that was also allured by this draw. I was all in with the image they were conveying.

When the facebook pictures first broke, I was shocked but as the incident unfolded the allure that attracted me seemed to all be smoke and mirrors. The contributions, the "we're only sorry because we were caught" explanation, on and on. I felt like I had been deceived.

How can Benchmade recover? For me, they're product is strong and doesn't need help. They are going to have to regain trust. I am not sure how that is possible but I am sure it is because every company steps in it from time to time. That unexplainable cult like following is something every company wishes to have but none that have it can probably explain how they got it. I believe it will be their savior. I don't think this is an incident that time will heal. They are going to need to be very proactive to fix this mess.

What are your thoughts?
 
I think Benchmade needs to get out in front of this instead of hiding behind a single statement that says nothing. There's going to be a lot of prominent Benchmade users like Meateater etc that are going to be asked how they can use Benchmade products in light of these events. The NRA show is soon and Benchmade has a booth. It's going to be an ugly few days for them unless BM comes out, truly apologizes, says why those contributions went to anti-gun politicians, and make public documentation on any pro-gun contributions the company has made. Create a special edition knife ASAP where xx% goes to pro-gun nonprofits.
 
Nobius said:
...says why those contributions went to anti-gun politicians...
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A number of us believe the contributions were grease money to keep the Oregon knife laws as liberal as they are. We can carry literally any bladed instrument we want, pending it isn't "concealed". That's part of the reason we have so many knife manufacturers in this state.

Further, if any Oregonians saw the list of politicians Benchmade donated to, they'd quickly realize these were FAR from the worst people to give money to. If I had seen Kate Brown on the list, I'd have flash-saled all of my knives and walked away from Benchmade, never to look back.
 
I listened to yesterday's interview (below) with BM's marketing director. He stated that BM helped destroy guns on multiple occasions. Some of the guns were taken from people "not mentally fit" to own them, according to interviewer's conversation with OCPD. Wow.

I wonder if the SKS & 870 in the pics were destroyed because a relative thought "Grandpa is crazy and shouldn't have guns" or because a Veteran (diagnosed with PTSD) was discovered to own those weapons. How can BM possibly fathom their actions were congruent with the Second Amendment when they had no true facts regarding each individual weapon the OCPD brought to them for destruction assistance? Only they can answer that, but I am certain they have lost some of their customers...forever.

Interview starts around 08:20 mark:
https://m.soundcloud.com/larsl...est-podcast-02-21-19
 
northside1 said:
This is a thread to post about the recent Benchmade topic regarding their assistance in cutting up guns and their political donations.

I am not sure how the topic can be discussed without touching on politics (and not sure why politics surrounding the world of knives can't be discussed) but I think it is such an incredibly important topic for the knife community that it is a shame that the other threads were locked.

Keep it civil and maybe the moderators will allow this one to stay. Don't fall victim to industry shills that will attempt to derail the thread by inciting discussion that will give mods a reason for it to be closed.


I will start. I think the extreme reaction is because the community feels like they were stabbed in the back. har har. For me at least, Benchmade had an unexplainable cult like draw that was appealing. Their designs were amazing. The quality was amazing (although assembly is lacking at times). They're an American company. They appeared to be supportive of the things I was. They had a rabid community of others just like me that was also allured by this draw. I was all in with the image they were conveying.

When the facebook pictures first broke, I was shocked but as the incident unfolded the allure that attracted me seemed to all be smoke and mirrors. The contributions, the "we're only sorry because we were caught" explanation, on and on. I felt like I had been deceived.

How can Benchmade recover? For me, they're product is strong and doesn't need help. They are going to have to regain trust. I am not sure how that is possible but I am sure it is because every company steps in it from time to time. That unexplainable cult like following is something every company wishes to have but none that have it can probably explain how they got it. I believe it will be their savior. I don't think this is an incident that time will heal. They are going to need to be very proactive to fix this mess.

What are your thoughts?
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You've been here for a hot minute, you've got 8 posts, you don't understand how topics work here, and you would like to dictate the discussion. No political discussion? That is all this topic is about. This topic will never end well here like all political discussions. There is a place for that here. Go "discuss" away.

Cypress said:
A number of us believe the contributions were grease money to keep the Oregon knife laws as liberal as they are. We can carry literally any bladed instrument we want, pending it isn't "concealed". That's part of the reason we have so many knife manufacturers in this state.

Further, if any Oregonians saw the list of politicians Benchmade donated to, they'd quickly realize these were FAR from the worst people to give money to. If I had seen Kate Brown on the list, I'd have flash-saled all of my knives and walked away from Benchmade, never to look back.
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This. People don't understand the realities of doing business in the north willamette valley. That, and some want to ignore how business and politics work in this country.
 
Thanks for posting this. I had the same thought and wondered how to word and post it. Also hoping that BF can find a way to allow discussions to continue without locking them, possibly by removing replies that cross the line but not locking a thread? It could easily start to look like BF is trying to keep a lid on it to take the heat off of Benchmade. Agree that no matter what any individual thinks about this it's huge in the knife world and beyond into the gun and outdoor world and possibly the LE world and unlike some other controversial knife makers who draw criticism it isn't about an individual's personality flaws or poor business practices, this one is directly tied to the political beliefs and practices of the former owner and possibly the new owner.

I recently bought a Custom Shop Benchmade, my first expensive knife, in memory of my son. I'll never sell it but I have no doubt he would have been disgusted with this situation and would find a different brand. Hoping that something comes out of Benchmade that will allow me to buy more of their products in good conscience.
 
The biggest issue I've found is the deception.
Benchmade repeatedly misled it's own cutomer with false information about the incident.

Businesses should avoid politics and stick to generating profit for their shareholders. Period.

The OCPD posted the pics as a poitical PR stunt.
Benchmade knew what they were doing and didn't think it would be scrutinized to the extent it was.
That was a bad decision, as their company then went under the microscope.
When the fallout started, they doubled down and misled the public claiming there was a court order.
There wasn't one. It was simply OCPD internal policy.
The specialty equipment comment made matters worse.

This case should be a lesson to businesses to keep politics out of your shop, and off your company budget.

Businesses should also realize their customers are alot smarter that they think. We aren't stupid.
 
Bad Ninja said:
Businesses should avoid politics and stick to generating profit for their shareholders. Period.
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Naive. Political donations can help businesses. People seem to have a problem with the business just trying make a buck rather than the cops who took the guns, the citizens who handed over their guns, and the system of politics that said business must survive in.

People need to worry about the knife and gun laws in their own local. Oregon is doing just fine.
 
craytab said:
Naive. Political donations can help businesses. People seem to have a problem with the business just trying make a buck rather than the cops who took the guns, the citizens who handed over their guns, and the system of politics that said business must survive in.

People need to worry about the knife and gun laws in their own local. Oregon is doing just fine.
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Wrong.
The sole purpose of any business is to generate profit for shareholders. Business 101.

Pay to play is akin to bribery and how organized crime operates.

I am a business owner for over 30 years.
Not one cent of my business goes to politics nor will it ever.

This fiasco will end up costing BM a massive ammout of income. Based on their responses, they are realizing that fact.
It's just not worth it.
Stick to making great knives.
 
I'd buy the "price of doing busoness" argument if they only donated to local politicians. They didn't. They also state on their website that they don't do political contributions. They do. KAI is also in Oregon and they haven't made politician donations. They seem to be doing fine.

I could care less about Benchmade helping the police destroy guns, even if it is bad optics. What I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is Benchmade's statement about being an "unwavering supporter of the 2A" in light of what has been discovered.

How does Benchmade recover? Come out and explain to us this whole situation. The fact that they haven't is telling.
 
Bad Ninja said:
Wrong.
The sole purpose of any business is to generate profit for shareholders. Business 101.

Pay to play is akin to bribery and how organized crime operates.

I am a business owner for over 30 years.
Not one cent of my business goes to politics nor will it ever.

This fiasco will end up costing BM a massive ammout of income. Based on their responses, they are realizing that fact.
It's just not worth it.
Stick to making great knives.
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Naive.

Are you saying you don't pay taxes?
 
tokerblue said:
I'd buy the "price of doing busoness" argument if they only donated to local politicians. They didn't. They also state on their website that they don't do political contributions. They do. KAI is also in Oregon and they haven't made politician donations. They seem to be doing fine.

I could care less about Benchmade helping the police destroy guns, even if it is bad optics. What I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is Benchmade's statement about being an "unwavering supporter of the 2A" in light of what has been discovered.

How does Benchmade recover? Come out and explain to us this whole situation. The fact that they haven't is telling.
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This is more nuanced than I think a lot of people will admit.

1. It's still not clear whether the donations were by Benchmade or by Les de Asis. I am thinking they must have been by Les, because it's not legal for corporations to donate to campaigns, and the donations I have seen have all gone to individual politicians' campaign funds and not PACs (where corporate donations are legal). The majority of those donations were to local politicians, and the majority of the politicians, regardless of party affiliation, were pro-2A.

... but some were not.

2. Benchmade may entirely reasonably not see a conflict between cutting up turned-in or confiscated firearms on behalf of their local PD and support for the 2A. People can (and do, vociferously) disagree on that topic.

How does Benchmade turn this around?

Well, they can either do a Springfield Armory, or they can do a Ruger.

If they do a Springfield Armory, they'll put out an apology, go to the Winchester, have a pint, and wait for all this to blow over.

If they do a Ruger, they'll change leadership and the direction of the company now that the old guard has passed. That's harder, since unlike Bill Ruger, Les de Asis is still alive, and unlike Ruger, the new CEO is literally Les's son.
 
tokerblue said:
I'd buy the "price of doing busoness" argument if they only donated to local politicians. They didn't. They also state on their website that they don't do political contributions. They do. KAI is also in Oregon and they haven't made politician donations. They seem to be doing fine.

I could care less about Benchmade helping the police destroy guns, even if it is bad optics. What I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is Benchmade's statement about being an "unwavering supporter of the 2A" in light of what has been discovered.

How does Benchmade recover? Come out and explain to us this whole situation. The fact that they haven't is telling.
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You know kai isn't a us company right? Buying their knives funds a government with some of the most restrictive gun laws ever.

How deep do people want to go into this? It's unlikely you'll like what you see...
 
The locking of these threads is having the reverse effect, like the responses to this by Benchmade so far. And it is now casting a bad light on BF as well. I have seen a lot of these "outings" over the years and this is by FAR perceived as the biggest betrayal of any of them. The response has been off the charts. At some point you have to put the shovel down, as you're only digging yourself into a deeper hole.
 
craytab said:
You know kai isn't a us company right? Buying their knives funds a government with some of the most restrictive gun laws ever.

How deep do people want to go into this? It's unlikely you'll like what you see...
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They still make some of their line in the U.S. The point was they didn't have to donate to local politicians to do business.

As for restrictive, I live in CT. I understand what Anti-2A is. But this topic is about Benchmade and their claims about being Pro-2A.
 
tokerblue said:
The contributions are listed as Benchmade Knives. Benchmade can clear this up with a simple statement.
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Actually, they're not. All donations listed on Open Secrets from Benchmade are identified as having come from individuals. All donations listed under Les de Asis are listed under his name with Benchmade listed as his occupation.

Benchmade employees donated to Kurt Schrader, who is the incumbent Democrat representative in their district and who is generally pro-2A, and someone inexplicably to Martin Heinrich, who is the junior senator from New Mexico and is also generally pro-2A.
 
tokerblue said:
They still make some of their line in the U.S. The point was they didn't have to donate to local politicians to do business.

As for restrictive, I live in CT. I understand what Anti-2A is. But this topic is about Benchmade and their claims about being Pro-2A.
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So your tax money goes to fund anti 2a stuff as well. Again, how deep do people want to look at things? When do you not get outraged?
 
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