Benchmade Proper

[Cory Hess]

Neal, Evan just sold one of his in the Knifemakers Market that looks very similar to the Apple Jack.

Kind of a cross between the sodbuster and that Apple Jack. Thought you'd be interested.

 

[Dean51]

If we didn't try and define traditional and modern, we might as well close this sub-forum. Folks could post in the General or Custom knives sub-forums. Not my call though.

The definitions are needed and appreciated.

I understand why pocket knives have their own thread and that's a good thing. It makes it easier to follow a thread on a subject, with out having to sort thru all the stuff that's in the General Knife Discussion.

It's like car collectors, some collect and restore classics and some like the old muscle cars. Their both car nuts but with very different interests.

I'll admit I get a bit confused some times about what is and is not considered traditional. Until I joined this forum, I never considered SAK's a traditional knife. They were Swiss army knives, just kind of in a class by themselves. Growing up I never knew any one who carried one.

If my grandfather would recognize it then it is traditional. But.
I see the AG Russel titanium lock backs discussed here, with no debate. This new Benchmade is not all that different. It's a fusion of old and new. I don't know if my grandfather would like a titanium handle but I bet he would have wondered why.

If these changes occurred over a period of 30 years this forum might not notice the change. These days changes can happen very quickly. Computers can design, manufacture and advertise world wide.
We already have knives like the Cold Steel Lucky & Lucky One, Fallkniven PC & LTC, Benchmade Proper & Small Lake Summit, AG Russell Titanium Lock Back. The Lion Steel Roundhead Barlow, I'm a for sure for two of those.

I'm open to the changes but this one is not for me, that sabre ground blade just isn't right for me.

If changes happen too fast in the near future a new area for modern pocket knives might have to be created.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I am not a fan of the 319-1, I like the 319, but mainly the covers. Long pulls and sheepsfoots are great, but that blade looks too thick for me. At least with the Slipits, the blades weren't small pry bars.

 

[brownshoe]

Humans categorize things to control them. In science the biggest early advancements were the categorization of observational information into species, types of land formations, kinds of rocks, etc.

Those who make the definitions have more control and those who make definitions that are accepted "by the community" have the most control...think Levine's guide and moderators Control is good since it helps discussion, selling, etc. Control is bad because it rejects "new traditions."

This creates a basic level of conflict. For example, the old knives with clips and opening tabs are not traditional by http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict definition: Of or pertaining to tradition; derived from tradition; communicated from ancestors to descendants by word only; transmitted from age to age without writing; as, traditional opinions; traditional customs.

For those old aberrations with tab openers and screwed construction, since there is no history before or after, they are not traditional.

Same is true with slipjoints made of modern materials with unusual nail nicks and screw construction.

But as stated by others, you can make new traditions. You just have to wait until you're a Grandpa, then screwed construction slipjoints with bottle openers in the butt will be traditional

To me, for pocket knives, this is the slipjoint/lockback/would your Grandpa know how to open/close forum

We can still celebrate a new slipjoint, from a US manufacturer known for quality, with good steel and durable covers.

 

[KBA]

Humans categorize things to control them. In science the biggest early advancements were the categorization of observational information into species, types of land formations, kinds of rocks, etc.

Those who make the definitions have more control and those who make definitions that are accepted "by the community" have the most control...think Levine's guide and moderators Control is good since it helps discussion, selling, etc. Control is bad because it rejects "new traditions."

This creates a basic level of conflict. For example, the old knives with clips and opening tabs are not traditional by http://www.dict.org/bin/Dict definition: Of or pertaining to tradition; derived from tradition; communicated from ancestors to descendants by word only; transmitted from age to age without writing; as, traditional opinions; traditional customs.

For those old aberrations with tab openers and screwed construction, since there is no history before or after, they are not traditional.

Same is true with slipjoints made of modern materials with unusual nail nicks and screw construction.

But as stated by others, you can make new traditions. You just have to wait until you're a Grandpa, then screwed construction slipjoints with bottle openers in the butt will be traditional

To me, for pocket knives, this is the slipjoint/lockback/would your Grandpa know how to open/close forum

We can still celebrate a new slipjoint, from a US manufacturer known for quality, with good steel and durable covers.

So much here I agree with and disagree with. I cant help but see Robert Merton's ideas surrounding institutionalized and culture goals being played out. 😜 We all fall in a quadrant. Yet we are off knives.

 

[Nikkogi]

Wow I really like this.

 

[neal70]

Jake-very accurate about the pattern, and an astute observation on the opener. That was something I had wondered about myself.
Cory H.- what a beautiful knife, I don't often check the knifemakers folding for sales. Obviously I need to remedy this. The shield is great, and overall the knife is s real, ahem, corker.
Some great posts here, very interesting reading. It's also interesting to see others opinions on traditionals and what qualifies. CRKT, not often mentioned around here, has a somewhat interesting newer knife called the "Nona", iirc, that with the simple removal of the clip, unnecessary in the first place imho, would certainly qualify for mention in this subforum. Almost a folding Nessmuk type of blade , againwith screwed construction, which if used for the intended purpose of skinning, would be quite handy, or so I suppose.
Thanks, Neal

 

[Jack Black]

I think that if the Lionsteel barlow is going to be considered traditional then this is too

Fair point :thumbup: Personally, I think discussions of both knives would be better in General. No reason why folk can't like both modern and traditional knives, but they ARE different :thumbup:

If we didn't try and define traditional and modern, we might as well close this sub-forum. Folks could post in the General or Custom knives sub-forums. Not my call though.

:thumbup:

It's an OLD conversation here in my opinion, very old. I just don't understand why folks can't accept the guidelines. There's a whole forum out there to discuss other knives, and you can even discuss traditional slipjoints in General if you want to :thumbdn:

 

[KBA]

Fair point :thumbup: Personally, I think discussions of both knives would be better in General. No reason why folk can't like both modern and traditional knives, but they ARE different :thumbup:



:thumbup:

It's an OLD conversation here in my opinion, very old. I just don't understand why folks can't accept the guidelines. There's a whole forum out there to discuss other knives, and you can even discuss traditional slipjoints in General if you want to :thumbdn:

Jack, I dont think you looked up Robert K Merton in my post. 😜

It may be an old conversation bc/ the definition has been given, technology had changed, and minds are stuck in stone. Yet even that definition is grey at best. Case in point you share you're opinion on the Euro Barlow and then contradict yourself by asking why it is so hard and how you dont understand in the next few lines.

 

[LastRodeo]

:thumbup: Merton Rocks!

 

[Jack Black]

It may be an old conversation bc/ the definition has been given, technology had changed, and minds are stuck in stone. Yet even that definition is grey at best. Case in point you share you're opinion on the Euro Barlow and then contradict yourself by asking why it is so hard and how you dont understand in the next few lines.

I'm not sure what I said amounted to sharing my opinion on that knife my friend (I was sharing my opinion of the discussion in that particular thread), though I must say I'm tempted :thumbup:

 

[KBA]

I'm not sure what I said amounted to sharing my opinion on that knife my friend (I was sharing my opinion of the discussion in that particular thread), though I must say I'm tempted :thumbup:

Lol, I understand. I have had to show temperance as well. We both deserve a beer for doing so imo.

That almost doesnt make sense for some reason. 😉

 

[screened porch]

Perhaps I was a little shrill. If one doesn't like a thread, one can stay out of it.

 

[Jack Black]

Lol, I understand. I have had to show temperance as well. We both deserve a beer for doing so imo.

That almost doesnt make sense for some reason. 😉

Cheers Brett :thumbup:

Sorry it's only cyber-beer, for now!

 

[KBA]

Cheers Brett :thumbup:

Sorry it's only cyber-beer, for now!

I'll take it brother. 👍🏼👍🏼

Perhaps I was a little shrill. If one doesn't like a thread, one can stay out of it.

Good point but just for fun. We are being real with each other, we're knife nuts, we have different perspectives and values. In a nut shell we are a culture and society living in a bubble here on the forum and sociological theories apply. Here's mine.



😝

 

[MadMaximus]

I kind of like it. It seems like a good blend of modern and traditional design features. Screws often look weird on traditional patterns, but this is different enough that it doesn't bother me. I would have preferred to see a full height grind, although that isn't too big of a deal. Looking forward to seeing some more pictures when it gets released. Hopefully they will offer it with a clip or drop point blade in the future also.

Agreed, clip blade would be real nice.

 

[supratentorial]

I think the quadrants could be applied to knife manufacturers as well as forumites (myself included). The conformity of "new" knives is rather striking to me. Real innovation is uncommon. In order to innovate, it helps to have a knowledge of history. Without it, you have no way of knowing if you are innovating, reinventing the wheel, repeating mistakes, conforming, violating a patent, etc. I think that is one of reasons that Charlie's SFOs are so special. The ideas are coming from someone who has an understanding and appreciation for the history.

To me, this Benchmade largely conforms to the standard for most slipjoint knives made by manufacturers of typically modern knives.

 

[KBA]

Jake, if may explore the graph shown a bit it may shed light on what I am refering to. The graph is built on the behavior of a society. Take ours for example.

The Top/ Accept & Side/Accept quad is where all follow the rules - -always on target talking about knives
The Top/Accept & Side/ Reject quad - could be the gaws and thank you threads. Not really in the rules but allowed. Think of a kid who praises the wrong action as good.
The Top/Reject & Side/Accept Is the overlly goodie goodie who is to good for their own acceptance. Think the class nerd or Mother Teresa. We all accept it but reject it as a behavior we want to do.
The Top/Reject & Side/Reject - Is someone is posting such as a troll or even a Chris Reeve on the totin thread. Thats rejected.
The Outcast Rebellion- Think the Amish. Theyve had enough and are seprate from society.

I was making the comparison as to the behavior and mindsets allowed as this quadrant table often defines who is accepted and who is rejected. Even in an all perfect society mankind will always find ways to categorize inorder to control as quoted above.

The adaptions and integrations of manufacturing would fall under these quadrents only if the rules applied to them but they dont. The rules here are only applied here on the porch.

 

[LastRodeo]

Now I get it Brett. I had to connect a few dots ... but there is definitely hypocrisy amongst us.

 

[supratentorial]

Thank you for the explanation, Brett. As I said in my pm, I don't have experience with sociology so the explanation was helpful.