Benchmade starting to be a disappointment !

L

labtec

Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Messages
10
Hi everyone,

I just received a Benchmade Ascent 820S and a CRKT Point guard and I have to say that Benchmade has lived up to its rep of being dull out of the box ! I like the styling, but the CRKT was hair poping sharp while the Benchmade edge was just average. What is the deal with Benchmade ? Cant they sharpen a knife correctly ! The CRKT are proving themselves to be a great value for the money. So far, I have two CRKT and both have been extremely sharp out of the box. I also have Two Benchmades now and both need a good stone job ! I am slowly starting to lose the idea of Benchmade being a quality product ! I love my 705BT, but I wish I could get it as sharp as my CRKTs. Anyone encounter the same problem with Benchmade ?


Thanks,
Labtec
 
I think you have to look at materials, fit & finish, and overall durability, including of the edge, as the most important tests of a knife company's products.

Sharpness out of the box is not really an issue: given normal use, you will be resharpening it some day anyway -- do it now. Make the edge you want as soon as you get it.

This is a good idea because it gives you a chance right away to learn what kind of steel you've got, how easily it sharpens, how well it will hold that edge. BM may be deliberately giving you a strong, hard-use edge rather than a razor, because you can always narrow it, but broadening that secondary bevel from a narrow edge is harder, and really wears the edge back up the blade.

How many jobs will that knife do that require a razor edge, and how many that require toughness? Benchmade may be giving you the better choice, instead of going for the easy, obvious attraction. Then again, they may just be too lazy to bother!
 
The Point Guard has a thin hollow grind. The edge on that knife is phenomenally thin to start with so it is subjectively sharper.

The 820 is a much thicker knife with a sabre grind meaning that the blade bevels are getting thick pretty fast over most of the knife.

I concur, sharpness out of the box is not the real measure of a knife's quality. It's a fun thing to talk about, but it doesn't indicate much about the life and function and quality of the knife overall.

But I also enjoy pulling a knife from the box and marveling at a great edge. Receiving a dull one is sort of like getting a dirty new car.

Phil
 
I peeked into this thread and expected to see a lot of negativity lashed at BM. I was quite surprised!

Esav and phatch have eloquently put into words what I've been attempting to say for three years. Thank you gentlemen.

Professor.
 
I think the best advice (hack, cough, cough, gasp) came for Paracelsus a few days ago. He said that some knives just came dull, and the owners were suppposed to sharpen them. And, more importantly, guys should know how to sharpen.
He also asked the question 'why do coffins get nailed shut?' It's a question that really spoke to me!
You'll notice that Vampire Gerbil is all but extinct! Thank you, Stanley ball-peen hammer...--OKG
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Old Knife Guy:
I think the best advice (hack, cough, cough, gasp) came for Paracelsus a few days ago. He said that some knives just came dull, and the owners were suppposed to sharpen them. And, more importantly, guys should know how to sharpen.</font>
Click to expand...

Great! All BM needs to do is advertise the fact that they haven't the faintest idea of how to put a factory edge on their knives, and that they think the buyer should do it themselves. Then there would be no problem. Until then, they should take lessons from Spyderco on how to obtain consistent results on their edges. I mean, BM can't get a consistent edge bevel on the same side of the blade, much less from side-to-side.

I do think BM's quality has been getting steadily better since they introduced the first Axis model. At least now the blade is centered between the liners, and doesn't scrape the opposite liner when opening, unlike the last dozen AFCK's I've handled. But for goodness sake, I do expect any knife I buy to be able to cut something more than butter when it comes out of the box.

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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection

Member NCCKG , SCAK, and AKTI

Deo Vindice

[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 12-12-2000).]
 
Labtect,
I own alot of Benchmades, and I think they're workmanship has come a long way from they're beginnings.I DON't like factory edges, I would much rather put the exact angle on the blade according to how I'am going to use it for my own purposes,then have them put an all around general purpose edge on it, and guess what I'am going to use it for!!
Ironhorse
 
Careful there OKG, if you want to quote me, then quote me. This is what I said in this thread asking which was the sharpest factory knife out of the box:

I can not answer this question directly. I have seen some really Poor factory edges, and some better ones. I have also seen custom knives with edges that are not bad, but not really good. I am in Gary Graley's camp, there are very few knives made with edges that could not be improved upon by a little tender loving care with good benchstones and a strop.

In the old days, many knives were sold with Dull edges. It was assumed that the owner of he knife would apply the edge himself. After all, if the knife really gets used, the user is going to have to do something to sharpen the knife before too long anyway. No edge will last forever, even if sitting around doing nothing.

Learn to sharpen your knives! Then all that is important is that your steel be made well, and the edge geometry is well designed and executed. Sypderco seems to do a good job of this, although I have always thought their edges could stand a little improvement.

Out of the Box sharpness is a silly idea (imo). It will not last. If you learn to sharpen your knives, the condition of the original edge will not be that much of a concern anymore.

Since this topic is about Benchmades out of box sharpness, I will embellish my response a little. I have read Numerous posts about BM's ultra-wide angle (thick) edge bevels, uneven grind lines, and ATS34 steel that is excessively hard and prone to shipping.

I also have a BM710 that my brother used for a while, and then sent me. It had a number of chips out of the original edge. I reground the edge bevels, which took some time doing it by hand. The orginal bevels were not only not the same from side to side, but the angle changed from the front to the back of the blade. I chalked this up to a serious neglect of quality control, and to a corporate philosophy of advertising extreme hardness for steels, which requires extraordinarily thick edge bevels to try and prevent chipping problems. I have seen some newer BM's that did not exhibit these 'features'.

Although I stand by my comments above, I do think BM could do a better job of making their knives in such a way that the end user would not have such a hard time reprofiling or simply resharpening the knife. And other than my complaints about the edge geometry and hardness of the steel, the 710 is a very nice hard use knife.

Paracelsus
 
I take a middle ground here. Yes, the edge bevels are the one thing that the user is expected to be able to grind anyway, so it's important not to get hysterical over a factory grind you're not happy with. On the other hand, I think a customer is perfectly justified in complaining about the edge bevels anyway. I've been doing so for years.

On the Benchmade forums, Benchmade asked some questions about their edge bevels, and got an earful -- post after post telling them their edges stink. There's a tiny bit of evidence indicating that they've listened to this feedback and have improved things. The 820 that labtec just received could have been from the "old" grind, and the new grinds are much better. Or, perhaps Benchmade hasn't improved much after all.

I suggest we all try to handle some Benchmades at shops or shows, taking care to ask the seller how recently he got his inventory in (still not a guarantee, since the knives could have sat in inventory at the distributor). I'm hoping newer inventory is getting progressively better edge grinds. Feedback on the Benchmade forum seems to indicate that this is happening.

Joe
 
I recently asked on the Benchmade forum if Benchmade seems to be doing a better job in regards to out of the box sharpness. You can see the thread here. So far the responses have been positive.

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Dennis Bible

mylogosmall.gif


[This message has been edited by shootist16 (edited 12-12-2000).]
 
Sharpness aside, I just picked up what I consider maybe THE knife for me, the BM 940 Osborne, what a beautiful knife and the workings on mine are very very good! Love the blade shape, handle....and the edge, though not anything to brag about, it didn't take anytime at all to put a hair frightening edge on this...

Very pleased with it, other Benchmades had thicker edges and wouldn't slice, but this one is not that way and I would recommend it to anyone...

I have the green handled version with plainedged 154cm blade.

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
 
labtec, Benchmade is notorious for dull knives out of the box. And that is the only serious complaint that I hear about BM every time they get mentioned. I know it's disappointing to get a new knife that's not sharp, but once you put a good edge on it, that edge will last way longer than the edge on your CRKT's, because BM uses better steel. It's a PITA, but you are just gonna have to sharpen your brand new knife. I've heard better things about the edges on BM's newer knives, FWIW

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"I have often laughed at the weaklings who call themselves kind because they have no claws"

- Zarathustra
 
Hi, I am Nimrod and I like my 940. I also like the AFCK after I got it back from the factory.

Now that I got that out of the way, is there anyone else who sees this as another cost cutting, profit increasing move?

I have felt for sometime that BM uses its retail customers (ELUs) as unsalaried QC inspectors. When flaws are found, and they have been, UPS, USPS or whomever, makes money as we defacto inspectors send our knives back and wait for them to be made right. Based upon my limited experience with a sent back knife, I would say they come back pretty darn good.

As for a fat edge that is more durable and that it could be thinned to suit by the ELU, I would buy that if it were not for BM's track record. They have great designs, high prices and spotty QC ... but we keep buying!

Did I happen to mention that I do like my 940 and they did a great job on the AFCK I sent back?

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 12-12-2000).]
 
Sorry, Para. I did not mean to 'Para-phrase' you incorrectly. I, too, have seen BM's with a 'wandering bevel' on the same side of the knife. I am fortunate enough to have equipment to correct this. (And to be fair, I'm not aware of any knife that is shipped and advertised "Dull, whetting not included.")
I think the knuts have access to such great equipment that when a 'stinker' shows its head, it's real obvious.
I also agree that a serious knut should be able to hone (or repair) a dull knife, with the proviso that some collectibles should be left 'as is.'--OKG
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nimrod:
Hi, I am Nimrod and I like my 940........
Did I happen to mention that I do like my 940 </font>
Click to expand...

I'm not quite clear on this Nimrod....are you saying that you like the 940? hehe
wink.gif


I don't like mine much, I love mine and have only had it two days!!!

and as Chefget knows, two days in Graley/trading/selling time is like an eternity!! so it must be GOOD....
biggrin.gif


G2

------------------
"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...

[This message has been edited by Gary W. Graley (edited 12-12-2000).]
 
Well, there are no surprises in this thread. BM blades are too hard and the edges are too wide. We've been talking about this for years.

Trying to explain away the poorly ground edges is just weird. I mean, saying that they are supposed to be dull and it's assumed that the owner will immediately reprofile them is a pretty poor excuse.

You could make that type of excuse whenever a company doesn't bother to set a high standard for a particular feature. For example: Someone could ask, "Why didn't the knife that I bought have a finish on the blade? The surface is all rough and ugly." Then a fan of the company would reply, "Well, it's assumed that you know how to finish a blade and you'll immediately put your own finish on. Some people like bead blast, while some people like a mirror polish or a satin finish. Not having a finish out of the box gives the buyer a choice. Most knife buyers know how to hand rub a finish and are grateful for the chance to do it themselves."



[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
Benchmade's QC leaves a lot to be desired. I have seen improvement, but not much. I have bought, handled, or used many many BM's. I am a very big fan of the AFCK. (OK, I'm only 5'4", but I weigh about 200lbs, So I'm kinda big) And that is the only model I have at this time (3 of them) I had a BM42 and i must say, that is in my opinion the best BM going. Anyway, back from my wandering. BM edges suck, (even the AFCK)based on the ones I have had in my hands. Which has been about every model. If I am going to pay around $100 for a knife, it should be sharp. Quality of material or being able to sharpen a knife is really not relevant. If CRK&T can get a razor edge on their low end knives with inferior material, why can't BM put a decent edge on their higher end knives with superior material? They were able to do it for the BM42, why not the rest of them. Maybe, Nimrod has a point.

By the way, Nimrod, are you really a nimrod?
smile.gif
When was the last time you worked as a nimrod? I only ask because many people don't know what a nimrod really is.

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Win if can, lose if you must, but always cheat.

[This message has been edited by Dirk (edited 12-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dirk (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
My experience: BM blade grinds are rather thick. The edges are therefore dull. It is the least of their QC problems. I can sharpen/ reprofile on my own.

But WHY should I? Or any other consumer? More so for a person who actually pays full MSRP! Especially a novice to high quality folders shopping for their first time. How is that old saying go? Ah, "You only get one chance to make a first impression".

Thinner edges: The will of the American people must be heard!
smile.gif


L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
I feel that saying, "I can sharpen my own knife better anyway..." does not excuse a knife company for doing a half-ass effort of sharpening a blade.

When we talk about fit/finish and detail, that should include the knife overall including the original profile, and sharpness of the blade. It is, afterall, a reflection of their workmanship.

What's to say that some other detail isn't lacking in precision? Especially, those features you can't see.

That said, BM can do good factory sharpening. It's a matter of finding THAT knife when you are buying.

My 710 Axis had sad out-of-box sharpness. However, my Pinnacle was "hair-shaving" sharp.

[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 12-13-2000).]
 
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