Benchmade threatens Rogue Bladeworks to stop making Bailout scales

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Quiff said:
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Benchmade may have the legal ground to stop people making aftermarket scales, but this may not look good on them. Especially the Bugout/Bailout series have a huge aftermarket.
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In what universe does a manufacturer of common consumer goods and hand tools have any right to stop other businesses from selling accessories that fit their products?

Rogue wasn't selling fully assembled modified Bailouts, very few mod shops are interested in carrying physical inventory that includes knives.

It's like saying Chevrolet is within their legal rights to annihilate the business of a popular upholstery shop that makes bespoke steering wheel covers. No, they don't have the right to do that, neither ethically nor legally, and the fact that they can abuse their massive size to force a catastrophic lawyer's bill on the smaller company does not change that.

It may not currently carry appropriate legal consequences, but it is clearly wrong and not legal.

Benchmade is flapping its ass in the wind with this one, and while I have always liked them, I hope this thoughtless and vandalistic decision costs them dearly.

They deserve to founder and sink if they want to throw their carcass into a crusade against third party scale makers. I would happily see Benchmade disappear from the world entirely before I accepted even one decent scale maker going away.
 
Ratatoskr said:
What from little I know of law, if domestic law is a nightmare, then international law is nightmare swallowed by eldritch horror and vomited into the interstices of the soul. I doubt Benchmade has the clout to go after a foreign company - or it may simply not be worth the money.
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Actually I have some experience with international law (civil matters) but they have all been with democratic countries (US, EU, UK, JPN). They have various agreements to accomodate each other to varying degrees. But China is an entirely different matter.
I would imagine going after some Yangjiang factory pumping out counterfeit bugouts would be quite a task with the jurisdiction being in a country that doesn't recognize foreign ip rights in the first place. BM could however go after US based business that import from China. And that would include after market scale brands.
 
Danny Linguini said:
I think BM is making a big marketing and PR mistake. I don’t see that BM themselves sell Bailout scales separately on their own, so it seems to me that aftermarket customization would increase the sales of their own products. Cut that market off, now they’re making their own product less appealing to those buyers who like to customize. I’m not seeing how BM is being harmed here. I think they’re harming themselves much more. UNLESS they have some kind of licensing agreements with other 3rd party scale manufacturers that we don’t know about that Rogue is refusing to participate in - that’s the only reason I could see Rogue being singled out.
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They are 100% trying to shoot themselves in the head right in front of us while we desperately beg them to put the gun down. That is the best analogy for what this lawsuit represents for Benchmade's future.
 
Mistake or not, IP is a use it or lose it prospect. They may well have no choice but to issue some sort of warning, otherwise, when there is an actual threat that they need the law's protection on, they may be out of luck. I'm just armchair lawyering this, but it's my understanding that IP law is murky, and Rogue may have just missed it's step here and needed to get engaged. Who knows what happens next, for all we know it settles out of court and everything is fine, but other industries/hobbies have been really brought down by "aftermarket" companies who were able to dilute the value of IPs. This may not be the sort of case of "little fish big fish" that it initially seems to be. Better bet is to see how this plays out before deciding who's right or wrong in this case. At any rate, there is plenty of room to find justification for whatever bias one already holds, and for me that's a red flag to wait and find out more background on what's actually going on. Again keep in mind that for the last couple of decades, the defacto rules for IP in the US are "Defend it or die" and "the money wins" I'm not sure which side of that coin we are on, but when both are a PR lose, only one has even a slight margin for long term business.
 
KenHash said:
Actually I have some experience with international law (civil matters) but they have all been with democratic countries (US, EU, UK, JPN). They have various agreements to accomodate each other to varying degrees. But China is an entirely different matter.
I would imagine going after some Yangjiang factory pumping out counterfeit bugouts would be quite a task with the jurisdiction being in a country that doesn't recognize foreign ip rights in the first place. BM could however go after US based business that import from China. And that would include after market scale brands.
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That's a clearer way to reword it, sure.
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
I haven’t bought a BM knife in years, other than the bugout BECAUSE I could get aftermarket scales.

I’m now 100% out on any benchmade products. It’s disheartening.

I bet all these aftermarket scale makers helped BM sell a ton of bugouts. I don’t like when “big dogs” try to bully smaller makers. Also, pro 2A my butt.

Hey BM…maybe stop using grivory as a handle material?

Edit to elaborate on my thoughts…

BM knows full well that people will make ti/cf scales for their knives. But what do they do? Advertise it as the greatest new knife and then put plastic scales on it to maximize profits. Why? So that they can put out a limited “Gold Class” with ti scales and maybe inserts, at a premium price? Or a limited CF and charge ridiculous prices.

BM should figure out how to stop their pocket clip screws from backing out, make a knife that is easily re-assembled and use current and wanted materials. Focus on sharpening, blade centering and bladeplay.

Oh, and stop cutting up firearms.

My thoughts only.
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Quoting for truth. Could not have said any of that any better.
 
Tell me if I’m out of line here…

BM has profited off the Axis lock for a long time…it was relevant and wanted for years. They had to know that the patent was going to run out…where was the innovation during these last few decades?

BM was a relevant company who made top tier knives back when there was little competition. Since that time, very few upgrades in materials other than blade steels. No upgrades to QC, and now you have to pay for replacement pocket clips.

Unfortunately, BM is no longer relevant. They are at best, overpriced budget knives IMO. They don’t really have “midtechs” (other than limited “Gold Class?”), and are not keeping up with emerging knife competition.

While other companies are moving forward, BM is standing still. It is unfortunate to see. BM used to be one of my favorite knife companies, but are now not even a blip on my radar.

The only thing that this C&D letter says to me…is that they are trying to kill the “American Dream.”

Rich stay rich, poor stay poor…no matter what it takes.
 
Companies that make aftermarket parts for knives or anything else are walking a line between free enterprise and IP theft. It looks like Rogue got a little bit over the line and Benchmade is being a little bit picky.

In a perfect world, Benchmade would let it go and we would all reap the benefits of more aftermarket support for their products. In the litigious world full of people probing the limits of IP protection, Benchmade has a case.

Of course this is pretty specific so all Rogue has to do is change the shape a bit and keep making scales.
 
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Sharp & Fiery said:
Tell me if I’m out of line here…

BM has profited off the Axis lock for a long time…it was relevant and wanted for years. They had to know that the patent was going to run out…where was the innovation during these last few decades?

BM was a relevant company who made top tier knives back when there was little competition. Since that time, very few upgrades in materials other than blade steels. No upgrades to QC, and now you have to pay for replacement pocket clips.

Unfortunately, BM is no longer relevant. They are at best, overpriced budget knives IMO. They don’t really have “midtechs” (other than limited “Gold Class?”), and are not keeping up with emerging knife competition.

While other companies are moving forward, BM is standing still. It is unfortunate to see. BM used to be one of my favorite knife companies, but are now not even a blip on my radar.

The only thing that this C&D letter says to me…is that they are trying to kill the “American Dream.”

Rich stay rich, poor stay poor…no matter what it takes.
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Framing this as class warfare is a stretch.
 
DMG said:
Companies that make aftermarket parts for knives or anything else are walking a line between free enterprise and IP theft. It looks like Rogue got a little bit over the line and Benchmade is being a little bit picky.

In a perfect world, Benchmade would let it go and we would all reap the benefits of more aftermarket support for their products. In the litigious world full of people probing the limits of IP protection, Benchmade has a case.

Of course this is pretty specific so all Rogue has to do is change the shape a bit and keep making scales.
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They may have a case…a wishy-washy one, if you ask me.
Long gone are the days where knife makers and companies helped each other out. It was a community of like minded people, loving what they do.

Good thing Chris Reeve didn’t patent the RIL…we would all be missing out on some pretty awesome knives.
 
Looks to me like the patent is for the “design of a knife” Rogue isn’t making their design, they are not copying BM’s knife, nor claiming it is a BM.
 
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