Best 2 x 72 for Me?

S

SLC_Blades

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Aug 20, 2018
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Hey everyone, first post on this forum, just wondering if some people more knowledgeable than I could help me out. I just started making knives probably 2 months ago and I’m now in search of a better grinder. I currently use a HF 1x30 for everything (the machine is a joke, I know) and it’s becoming more apparent by the day that I need something to improve upon this if I want to continue with making knives.

The first grinder I’m looking at is the grizzly 2 x 72 because of the versatility offered for a great price. I’m aware of the tracking, tensioning, and platen issues, and those are what bring me to not pull the trigger right away.

The other grinder I’m looking at is of course a nice KMG (most likely with a pulley system and 8” contact wheel). The obvious negative to choosing KMG is the hefty price tag. I’m only 17 but I have a lot saved up and a job that pays me very well, so I can afford it. $1700 still seems like a ton of money to put into a single tool when I’ve only been at it for two months, however.

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

TL;DR: Should I buy a grizzly 2 x 72 to conserve money (been making knives for only 2 months) or should I take the hit and go with a KMG?
 
I wouldn't buy a KMG

Have you got the skills to drill and tap some holes = put together an EERF = Esteem and make it variable speed
 
Plenty of guys got started on the Grizzly, and it's certainly better than a 1x30, but personally I'd go a different route, even if it meant saving up for a few more months. You have more options now than ever when it comes to chassis, kits, and even full package systems, and while very few will be in the $600 range of the Grizzly, I believe you can find or build a better machine for not much more.

I know Polar Bear Forge sells the SLING kits pretty cheap, and while they're single function machines, you can get the parts needed and even set up for variable speed for somewhere around the price of the Grizzly. A lot of guys are building the DC knives grinder with a flat platen for not a ton of money. Oregon Blade Maker (or is it Origin now?) has some options. There was another recent thread about entry level grinders that has some options as well.

Take your time, shop around, save some money, and see what shakes loose.
 
Lots of times people think the problem with buying cheap tools is that they will break. The fact is, as long as it isnt hazard freight, it has a high chance of lasting a hobbist their whole life. Heck i worked in factories that ran grizzly machines 16 hours a day for 20+ years with very little signs of wear. So you see, the real problem with cheap tools, is they actually do work, and it makes it harder to buy a more expensive tool that you really want, so you end up just keep on using the damn thing and putting up with its quirks.

I own a grizzly 1x42 and am going through what i just described.
 
look at Pheer Grinders

He has some good deals
 
There's probably half a dozen higher quality and cheaper priced grinders than a KMG. I don't know what's up with Beaumont, but they haven't changed their design in nearly twenty years, and apparently customer service has went to crap.
 
I just ordered an Origin Blade Maker to replace my 1x30. I looked at other grinders but for the money it's hard to beat unless you have the tools available to build your own. Mine came out to $778 shipped this includes; chassis/nylon wheels $465, tool rest $24, extra tool arm $35, small wheel attachment w/small wheels $144 and drive wheel $40.
If you have an electric motor repair shop near go by there, you can probably save a good bit on your motor I picked up a used 1 hp 3 ph for $27. I ordered my vfd off amazon for $168 kbma-24d I figured the nema 1 enclosure was worth the extra money over building an enclosure for a slightly cheaper unit.
 
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jwill05 said:
I ordered my vfd off amazon for $168 kbma-24d I figured the nema 1 enclosure was worth the extra money over building an enclosure for a slightly cheaper unit.
Click to expand...

The NEMA 1 enclosure is what you get on ALL the cheap VFD that I know about. The expensive ones are the NEMA 4 units. I've been using NEMA 1 enclosed drives for 4 or 5 yrs with no problem as a hobbyist user by putting a filter over the air inlets to keep the metal dust out. The last Chinese VFD (NEMA 1) I purchased was $80 shipped and works for 2 hp just fine. VERY easy to setup also with a GOOD English manual included.

If you enjoy making tools and have access to a decent drill press you can make a nice 2X72 for $400 to $500, and that includes the 3 ph motor and VFD. If you don't wish to make your own, there are several NICE looking grinders out there (less motor) in the $500 to $800 range. Then add around $300 for a new motor and VFD puts you in NICE business. I would NOT consider anything but a direct drive with VFD for an only 2X72 grinder. If you're wanting a high speed only grinder, then a VFD isn't needed at all. Just run it at 6,000 SFPM and make sparks.
 
Ken H> said:
The NEMA 1 enclosure is what you get on ALL the cheap VFD that I know about
Click to expand...

No, a nema 1 enclosure wouldn't have "air holes" that need to be covered as nema 1 means it is protected for falling debris (dirt).
 
Most all your vfds are coated now a days. I know my cheap 10hp one I got has epoxy coated boards. Only electrical components that are exposed are the actual terminals when you connect you power, motor and remote leads
 
I am a big proponent of building! But I understand not everyone has the know how or “care” to go this route. In which case I would recommend that type buy one of the several sub $600 grinders minus motor/VFD, on the market. Then look for a at least a 1hp motor, and of course either a pulley system or vfd.

And as far as vfd’s go, many will tell you that only the KBAC-27 or like, is worth having. And the cheap VFD’s will fail! Of course I purchased a Lapond VFD for under $100, and it throws an overheating error in the first week I’m using it! So I contact the company, and they cover it 100%. In fact they offer to send me the same unit for $0, or the upgrade for an additional $40. I went with the upgrade.

Oh yeah....they told me to not even worry about sending back the old one back. After I got my new Lapond, I open up the old one. And I find a marred surface of the heat sink causing poor contact with the module. Also had WAY too much heat conducting grease. Little light sanding of the heat sink, cleaning old grease and applying a nice thin coat of the crazy expensive transfer grease I’ve had for years....and it is good to go! So now I have TWO VFD’s for under $140! Oh! And like Ken, I use a filter covering the vents as well.
 
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I agree with OneArmed on his post EXCEPT for:
either a pulley system or vfd
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Unless a person is wanting a high speed profiling grinder, then it's VFD for me. No question, no choice there. If you're buying a new motor, then the price will be about the same, 1 ph or 3 ph. The NEMA 1 VFD won't be any more than buying a good pair of pulleys, bearings, shaft and other things needed for a 3 speed pulley setup.
 
jwill05 said:
No, a nema 1 enclosure wouldn't have "air holes" that need to be covered as nema 1 means it is protected for falling debris (dirt).
Click to expand...

I stand by my NEMA 1 statement. Here's a few links to confirm how I got my info:

Check this Hitachi Drive which is rated NEMA 1, and see the openings
https://www.wolfautomation.com/products/ac-drives/ac-drive-2hp-200-volt-single-phase

Here's the definition for the NEMA ratings.
https://www.vfds.com/blog/nema-vfd-enclosure-ratings

You might be thinking NEMA 5 which says "Dust-tight. Provide a degree of protection of the equipment inside enclosure against solid foreign objects such as falling dirt and settling airborne dust, lint, fibers, and flyings; and to provide a degree of protection with respect to harmful effects on the equipment due to the water such as dripping and light splashing."
 
Pheer 454 1.5hp with variable speed for $1500!! Will last you a lifetime!! A few $$ more for an Ameribrade grinder. Can't go wrong with either

KMG is ancient history!!
 
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Ken H> said:
I agree with OneArmed on his post EXCEPT for:


Unless a person is wanting a high speed profiling grinder, then it's VFD for me. No question, no choice there. If you're buying a new motor, then the price will be about the same, 1 ph or 3 ph. The NEMA 1 VFD won't be any more than buying a good pair of pulleys, bearings, shaft and other things needed for a 3 speed pulley setup.
Click to expand...


Oh of course Ken! My choice as well! But I was coming from the point of not EVERYONE being comfortable with wiring & programming the VFD. Yes, it’s easy, but not for everyone. And, they may be some out there with pulleys/bearing they could already come use to save money. But yes, for “ME”, I’ll always use a VFD.
 
Ken H> said:
Check this Hitachi Drive which is rated NEMA 1, and see the openings
https://www.wolfautomation.com/products/ac-drives/ac-drive-2hp-200-volt-single-phase
Click to expand...

No, I'm thinking nema 1 because I read the specs and the link you post is not even of a nema 1 enclosed device nema 1 and ip20 are not the same rating you would know this if you read the links to the ratings that you posted rather than spreading misinformation.

Here is a Nema 1 enclosure notice the lack of vents and holes.
https://www.kb-controls.com/product...9C8C44A6D06C068.p3plqscsfapp003?productId=175
 
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Not trying to butt heads with you and can well see where you got your info from the link you provided. Take a look at this link showing NEMA rating vs IP ratings:
http://www.hopeindustrial.com/nema.htm where it shows NEMA 1 is equivalent to IP20 rating

From the above link: "NEMA 1 Enclosures are constructed for indoor use to provide a degree of protection to personnel against access to hazardous parts and to provide a degree of protection of the equipment inside the enclosure against ingress of solid foreign objects (falling dirt)." The VFD drives that are called NEMA 1 would certainly provide a degree of protection to personnel against access to hazardous parts and falling dirt, but that's about all.

IP50 says "Limited protection against dust ingress. (no harmful deposit) with NO protection against liquid." IP20 says "Protected against solid objects over 12.5mm (≈1/2" size) e.g. hands, large tools and not protection against liquid".

I do agree with you I've always thought of NEMA 1 as more enclosed than the VFD drives with the open enclosures.

OK, looking at your link a bit more I see it's the KBMA AC drive. Take a look at the items listed to the left side, click on the KBWA AC drive and you'll see a totally different enclosure that's called NEMA 1. https://www.kb-controls.com/category.sc?categoryId=29
 
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jwill05 said:
No, I'm thinking nema 1 because I read the specs and the link you post is not even of a nema 1 enclosed device nema 1 and ip20 are not the same rating you would know this if you read the links to the ratings that you posted rather than spreading misinformation.

Here is a Nema 1 enclosure notice the lack of vents and holes.
https://www.kb-controls.com/product...9C8C44A6D06C068.p3plqscsfapp003?productId=175
Click to expand...

NEMA 1 will keep your fingers out.

NEMA 4 will keep dust out.
 
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