Best 3-4'' folder for sd use.

357Wheelgunner said:
Not everyone can carry a gun, especially if they work for a bigger company.

If you decide to carry a knife for self defense, get training.

Having a knife confiscated after an assault will be the worst of your worries if you end up stabbing someone in SD, spend the money for a quality weapon. $130 will buy you a very nice SD knife like a spyderco Military or an Emerson CQC-7. I doubt quality gets much higher, you can pay more for a knife that isn't much better. I like just about anything Spyderco, Emerson, or Benchmade. I carry an Emerson, haven't been able to tote anything else since I got my Commander.


http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=10289

http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9945
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Agree.Emerson would be a good chioce thx.
 
AfterTFD said:
That's a reasonable position to take, but I still say buy cheap.

Just to play devil's advocate here are a couple arguments to consider:
-If you end up stabbing someone you'll be stressed enough that you'll want as few things to worry about as possible. It's not fun to have to worry about legal troubles and the fact that you just lost a $130 knife.
-One to three million people die every year from malaria, most of them children. If you bought a $30 knife instead of a $130 knife and donated only half of the savings that could save the lives of 100 children. Then if you got torn up in a fight you could die with a clearer conscience.

edit: I wholeheartedly agree with the most important part of your post. If you're going to use a knife get whatever training it takes so that you know what you're doing!
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$30 knives don't come as sharp as $130 knives>I want it to perform.
 
$30 knives don't come as sharp as $130 knives
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Then get something to sharpen it. If you're willing to spend $130 on a knife you don't really have an excuse not to have a good sharpener and if you're on a budget you only need to grab some wet/dry sandpaper. There isn't an appreciable difference in a fight between a kinda sharp knife and a very sharp knife unless you're as weak as a child, in which case you shouldn't be knifefighting.

Stabbing is far more useful and effective in a fight than slashing and the point of your knife doesn't have to be much sharper than a screwdriver to do that well enough. Small 3-4 in. folders like this thread are about are basically useless at slashing in a fight no matter how sharp they are anyways. People who talk to you about things like slashing at an attacker's arms with one have either never once seen an even halfway competent fighter in action or they are talking about dueling, which has absolutely nothing to do with self defense.
 
AfterTFD said:
Then get something to sharpen it. If you're willing to spend $130 on a knife you don't really have an excuse not to have a good sharpener and if you're on a budget you only need to grab some wet/dry sandpaper. There isn't an appreciable difference in a fight between a kinda sharp knife and a very sharp knife unless you're as weak as a child, in which case you shouldn't be knifefighting.

Stabbing is far more useful and effective in a fight than slashing and the point of your knife doesn't have to be much sharper than a screwdriver to do that well enough. Small 3-4 in. folders like this thread are about are basically useless at slashing in a fight no matter how sharp they are anyways. People who talk to you about things like slashing at an attacker's arms with one have either never once seen an even halfway competent fighter in action or they are talking about dueling, which has absolutely nothing to do with self defense.
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Cheap knives use cheap steel they dodn't take an edge like premium steel.
 
gine said:
Cheap knives use cheap steel they don't take an edge like premium steel.
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Cheap steel is usually good enough if it isn't amazingly crappily heat treated. As I said, a knife for hurting people doesn't have to be very sharp. It also doesn't need to be able to hold its edge too well if you aren't also using it as a tool for anything.

Don't forget, you can buy used. A knife doesn't have to be new to do its job. Anywhere you live it's easy to find a cheap knife that wasn't cheaply built.
 
Get one you will carry. If you don't always have a knife with you a problem will happen the day its left at home. For me its a large razor sharp Sebenza.
 
A knife doesn't have to be any stronger or sharper or easier to open than a Cold Steel Recon 1. The knife comes sharp as a razor and when the blade's locked into place, it can withstand some 200 lbs. of sustained force. Not quite enough for Lynn Thompson to do pull ups on, but close enough. The blade's strength, I think, is more important than edge retention. But there are plenty of good self defense folders starting around $40 and going up. Doesn't take too long to reach a point of decreasing marginal return.

Oh, and CRKT's M16-14SF is great, too, in that it provides a full hilt. So does their Desert Cruiser.

m16-14sf-md.jpg
recon104.jpg

The M16-14SF is a good choice (left). So's the Cold Steel Recon 1.
 
If the knife is strictly for SD, you probably won't actually use it that much.
Therefore I don't see why you should spend $150 plus on an Emerson, excellent though it may be, when a $50 Endura or $80 Avalanche will give you good handle grip, good edge-retentive steel, decent length, light carry weight, and the quality control that stands behind two of America's best production knife companies.

Hell, if it's strictly for SD, spend $12 and get an Outdoor Edge Wedge, you can slash your way out of a jam with its big belly, the grip is awesome, its lightweight, sheath is secure, and did I mention its $12-16 bucks?:D
 
I recommend any knife made of a premium steel that fits your hands. I personally recommend a kershaw boa because thats what I carried for years before I was old enough to carry a pistol. The boa WILL not let you down in a SD situation. Ask me how I know(NM don't).... Be prepared for the BS that follows having to defend yourself...NOT FUN. BTW anyone that says a slash from a 3-4" folder thats kept razor sharp will be ineffective has never had to slash anyone. Trust me, it works. I'm not saying that its as effective,less effective, or more effective than a stab. I'm just stating it works fine with the right edge and if you get them in a good area and deep. BTW, I carry a glock 33 and a halo 3 now.(The boa has earned a special place in my heart and I always freaked out when I misplaced it) Looking forward to trying the wave feature on my emerson cqc11 when it comes it. For a budget knife I recommend a waved endura since it a decent knife and has the wave feature.
 
I second the waved Endura. It's fast, simple, and priced well.

DarwinG31, you could try bragging a little less about "Fing someone up"... Just sayin'...
 
Gunfucius said:
I second the waved Endura. It's fast, simple, and priced well.

DarwinG31, you could try bragging a little less about "Fing someone up"... Just sayin'...
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Whoa buddy, was truely not trying to bragg. It was/is an ordeal that I wish didn't happen. But I can see where it may have come across that way. Thanks for pointing it out. Has been edited.
 
I would not want to be in a life and/or death situation with a $12 knife. I also would not want to be in a self defense situation with a knife that isn't at least pretty damn close to razor sharp. -Pocket clip and one hand openning aside, I think that sharpness, grip, and lock strength/reliability are neck and neck for the most important things to consider in a sd knife. Next would be edge holding ability as the knife will undoubtably be used for other things. Then I'd consider how stong, long and what shape the blade is.
The grip should be solid even if your hands are bloody, sweaty, or otherwise wet. The lock should be strong enough to stab something hard, with force, and not close. And the blade should be sharp enough to cut through multiple layers of fabric and keep going. If the knife doesn't offer you those things, I would not consider it.
 
Not trying to harp, but the $12 Outdoor Edge Wedge is a fixed blade. No need to worry about lock strength.

I don't think low price automatically disqualifies a knife for SD.

I remember years ago Eric (I forget his last name) teaching SD knife work with razor sharp Delicas and chuckling over some of his students bringing their $300 'custom' folder to the class, only to be humbled by the superb edge geometry and cutting ability of the 'lowly' $40-something dollar Delica.

A sharp Wedge in Aus 6 with proper edge profile can most certainly lay someone open just as well as the beloved Emersons, Sebenzas and Mad Dogs.
Just My Opinion.
 
The Outdoor Edge Wedge is a good choice for a neck knife or keychain knife.

For a folder, it's hard to beat a waved Endura 4.
 
Just a thought, but if you get a sd knife that is made primarily for stabbing, plan to go to jail just for mere possesion in many states. If you carry it as a tool that can be used for sd, that's one thing, but if it's just a plain offensive weapon, you won't have it for long. And bail bondsmenaren't cheap either.

Many state and local laws make use of the term "intended for". If it's intended primarily for stabbing, it and you are both gone.

Gene
 
Confederate said:
A knife doesn't have to be any stronger or sharper or easier to open than a Cold Steel Recon 1. The knife comes sharp as a razor and when the blade's locked into place, it can withstand some 200 lbs. of sustained force. Not quite enough for Lynn Thompson to do pull ups on, but close enough. The blade's strength, I think, is more important than edge retention. But there are plenty of good self defense folders starting around $40 and going up. Doesn't take too long to reach a point of decreasing marginal return.

Oh, and CRKT's M16-14SF is great, too, in that it provides a full hilt. So does their Desert Cruiser.

m16-14sf-md.jpg
recon104.jpg

The M16-14SF is a good choice (left). So's the Cold Steel Recon 1.
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I have owned both the CRKT M16 and the Recon1 with the Tanto- point. I liked the CRKT, but eventually the lock failed (my second CRKT, also a liner lock with a secondary lock is also not trust inspiring, you can wiggle the blade and the lock starts to give.).

I have carried the Recon1 for 6+ years edc, and have never had it fail. The new G-10 handled ones are even stronger, and they are very affordable.

As to the statement that a 3-4 inch knife is no good at slashing, and does not need to be sharp............Hogwash. get a smallish pig, put a shirt on it, and I guarantee I can slash the flesh to the handle (ie bury the entire 4 inch blade and make a 10+ inch long slash with out too much effort. A hard slash against ribs can separate the ribs.) My cousin got slashed several times with a small folder in a fight. All the slashes were deeper than the blade was long (flesh compacts easily) and only stopped when they hit and nicked bone. They were not dedicated slashes either, the guy was trying to poke some holes in his chest, and my cousin blocked without thinking about it. He almost died from blood loss. It was a quick flick/slash slash slash and 400+ stitches to sew it all up.

I have a single edge push knife with under a 3 inch blade. I guarantee if you punch some one in the chest you can reach the heart through the ribs with it.
 
AfterTFD said:
Cheap steel is usually good enough if it isn't amazingly crappily heat treated. As I said, a knife for hurting people doesn't have to be very sharp. It also doesn't need to be able to hold its edge too well if you aren't also using it as a tool for anything.

Don't forget, you can buy used. A knife doesn't have to be new to do its job. Anywhere you live it's easy to find a cheap knife that wasn't cheaply built.
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Unless the cheaper lock folds on your hand and you loose your fingers. My brother and I used to carry Buck Cross locks. They folded like warm butter. I got cut so many times (not in abusive situations either, like opening boxes of meat, you name it). I don't know if they have improved the locks since then, but I hope so. We both threw ours away when my brother's folded and severed his tendon on his right hand thumb. Surgery and a cast for along time, and luckily the thumb was not paralized. They cost as much as much much stronger knifes.

If you can find a cheaper knife with a strong lock that is great, but don't expect most 30 dollar knives to keep your fingers safe (they are out there, but you have to be picky and careful). Ask around first, buy second.
 
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