best all around steel

Well sure. Buy whatever you want. I'm just saying that the "carbon steel is better than stainless" or vice versa is meaningless now. You have to be more specific to get any kind of useful answer in the carbon vs. stainless question.

Part of the problem comes in defining carbon and stainless steels. Opinels and such are definately carbon steel, but many people lump A2, M2, M4, D2, 3V, 10V etc. in with "carbon steel" just because they will rust. This is what I mean by oversimplification.
 
I like VG-10 and S30V. I think they are good all-around steels. 154CM should be up there, too, since they say it's much like VG-10.

Someone said M4, and I wouldn't call that a good "all-around" steel since it lacks in the department of stainlessness.
 
Best for what?;)


I'd like to see a hybrid of ZDP/H-1 :eek: :)
 
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Wootz.

I'm longest on knives in D2, with 1095 a close second, but if limited to one, I wouldn't mind tying up many hundreds in a custom blade.
 
CPM M4, or Vascowear( or 3V). Both are great at wear resistance and good at being tough. Corrosion resistance is not so good , but that's not an issue for me.
 
Just all around: 52100 or CPM D2

All around, heavy on strength: M4 or 3V or infi

All around, stainless: S30V or laminated VG 10 or BG 42

Super stainless: H1

Stainless, super edge holding: S90V
 
I like 1095 in carbon steel, and ATS-34 in stainless. As long as they are heat treated correctly, they are both great.
 
I like INFI for Fixed blades, also SR-101.

CPM 154 or VG-1 for Folders, had the best luck with both of them.
 
USCGGM said:
so, I am definitely not the expert on steels and would love a little insight...lets say you could only have one knife (what a shame! How could I say such a thing?) What would be the best all around steel to have a blade made out of? I understand that some have better sharpening ability, some better at corrosion, etc. but if you could only choose one, what would it be and why?
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It has been my view for some time that the steel alloy used in a knife forms only perhaps 1/3rd of the meaningful attributes for what makes a good knife. Marketing literature from the big cutlery companies tends to emphasize the steel alloy used, but say little if anything about the heat treatment process, beyond some vague reference to a Rockwell hardness. Much of this has to do with commercial production shortcuts, where the minimum time in the furnace nets the best profitability. A custom maker might have a 40 hour process for heat treatment, compared to perhaps a 1-4 hour process for most production knives.

The point is that a "good steel" can receive rather crummy heat treatment due to the very successful tactic of overselling the attributes of the knife based on the reputation of the steel. This can lead to some disappointing results when knife A doesn't perform like knife B even though it's blade geometry and steel are otherwise the same.

Many custom makers use fairly simple low alloy high carbon steels, like 1095, O2 and W2 among the most common, with some use of 5160 (spring steel) and 52-100B (ball bearing steel) favored by a few. Why do most custom knife makers use these steels? Because they are generally much more forgiving, compared to the stainless and high alloy steels, to properly quench and temper within a somewhat wider tolerance to achieve a high quality final result. A custom knife's cost could be said to be driven in some large part by the additional handwork and time invested, among other things, in the quality and care taken during the hardening and tempering processes.

In effect, the steel is chosen as dictated by the tools and the degree of tolerance a specific steel has to allow for the diametrically opposed requirements of hardness (for edge retention) and toughness (to avoid cracking, chipping and breakage). A lot of the reason for the new crucible and high alloy steels is that they take to the mass production environment very well. They can be hardened to a specific hardness and tempered in bulk furnaces such that the finished knives will take and hold a fairly keen edge even without a more complicated heat treatment process.

High alloy steels are still relatively cheap compared to the cost of furnace time, human operator intervention and the various intermediary steps necessary to bring a custom knife to completion. In this respect a well made custom knife will not be equaled by the production blade fabricated in a fancier high alloy or stainless steel, but it could be approximated by said steels and often at much lower cost in at a least a few key areas.

Production knives must compromise on hardness to ensure sufficient toughness for the steel used and the thickness of the blade section, since they are generally more or less uniform in hardness and temper throughout the entire blade, from edge to spine and tip to tang. In custom knives, this is often not the case, as a quality temper job may involve a differential or zone heat treat to achieve a more optimized result with a harder edge relative to the majority of the blade and a tough, springy temper that may be much softer and tougher at the tang than at the body of the blade.

I favor D2, A2 and M4 for edge holding, but they are fairly difficult to work with and when hardened to their full potential are far too brittle for a hard use knife. Some custom makers do a very good job with these higher alloy steels, but they are few and far between, most custom makers do not even attempt to adapt their techniques and tools for the small cross sections of customer's that request these steels, though the results can be amazing.

The ABS Bladesmith organization have a required test which includes performing various cutting chores on 2x4s and rope, the test finishing with a 90 degree bend test with the blade tip locked in a vice. Obviously, the blade has to endure this without dulling or breaking, proving the smith has command over hardening and tempering/annealing. While many production knives can perform the cutting tests demanded with similar performance, very, very few survive the bend test unscathed and most catastrophically fail (granted, many of the ABA blades that survive the test take a permanent bend, but one that can usually be hammered out or reversed without fracture) .

Give the custom makers another look, even with their "simpler" steels you might find that their 1095 based blades perform like a more costly steel from a large production house based in India or China and provide better edge holding and toughness to boot.

With kind regard,

-E
 
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I dont have a lot of D2 blades but given the magic that some smiths do with that steel I would say it would get my vote.

I think S30V is the "Flavor of the Month" Just like ATS34 was and 154CM etc etc. Dont get me wrong, its good, but so are the others.
 
Three immediately come to mind, BG-42, SG2 and CPM-M4. If I had to choose just one for a folder, it would have to be CPM-M4 due to it's ability to hold a very fine edge and relative ease of sharpening. My CPM-M4 Gayle Bradley is doing things that I never thought a knife could do.
 
I think that 12C27 is pretty universal. It's tough, which is good for various outdoor uses. Many scandinavian knives use it. Edge holding is a decent midrange, it sharpens easily as well.
 
Dagon said:
I think that 12C27 is pretty universal. It's tough, which is good for various outdoor uses. Many scandinavian knives use it. Edge holding is a decent midrange, it sharpens easily as well.
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+ 1

~Paul~
 
me2 said:
Well sure. Buy whatever you want. I'm just saying that the "carbon steel is better than stainless" or vice versa is meaningless now. You have to be more specific to get any kind of useful answer in the carbon vs. stainless question.

Part of the problem comes in defining carbon and stainless steels. Opinels and such are definately carbon steel, but many people lump A2, M2, M4, D2, 3V, 10V etc. in with "carbon steel" just because they will rust. This is what I mean by oversimplification.
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Point taken :)
 
I say 1095 with proper heattreat is excellent knife steel. Its tough, its relatively simple and relatively cheap. It doesn't need super gadgets to be made or extremely expensive machines... If I am correct, INFI is high tech and super engineered version of 1095.

But still: When it comes realibility, toughness, price etc, etc in my book 1095 is excellent all around steel. It gives many super steels run for their money either toughness, edge retention, ease of sharpening etc.

Its only major weakness is that it rusts easily if not taken care of. But 1095 works excellent from small slipjoints, to folders to any size of fixed blade.
 
I love VG-10 for EDC, the Vicotorinox stuff ain't bad either. For outdoor stuff it varies. I like the scandi steels and 1095. No experience with a2, d2 or 01 yet though.

Best all around steel? It's like saying what the best all around gun. It really depends on what your going to use it for.
 
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