Best carry system for long knife

I want to tell you a little graphic story.

There is a show on cable, I forget which network, it is called, "Trauma: Life & Death in the E.R."

Do you remember the old "Survival Knives" that were full page advertisements in the 1980's (The Rambo knife craze, you see...) on the backs of such magazines as SWAT & S.O.F., remember them?

The knife had a bulbous compass as an end cap, the type of compass that one sees attached to the dash of some unwitting map-victim's car via a suction cup...

The knife had "sawteeth" on the back and in silhouette, a bottle cap opener on the bottom of the blade forward of the guard.

Hollow handle, we know how they fail too.

That knife, or one very similar to it, was stuck in someone's head on the show. Nice X-Ray.

I would have never thought that possible given the materials or construction in that or other types of knives in that genre...they are simply flea market knives.

Failure, to me, is putting it in someone and using it as a lever, and the blade failing. Pure and simple...it is not prying other materials with it, putting it in a vise and slipping a piece of galvanaized pipe on the handle to see how far it will go before the inevitable happens.

All knives break. There has never been a knife made that will not break. If I were in the woods and needed to dig, I sharpen a stick with my knife to dig if I do not have a shovel, as a hatchet, I smack the spine of the blade with a piece of wood, not another piece of steel. Old Whitetail hunting stories follow.

I am not flaming, I am merely stating the truth of things as I see it. All knives will break, screwdrivers will break, if you have the right Torture Rack set up, you could make a crowbar fail.

I understand people want the toughest knife for their money...I wonder if people have been reading this thread and understanding intent...Jerry's knife moves like a snake, I don't want it to move like a boat oar. There are trade-offs...I feel comfortable.

The remarks about ATS-34 are well thought out, Black Cloud Knives has done well with it, as have others...I believe Jerry is correct, the heat treat is the key to producing very good ATS-34. I never understood why everyone attacked it, if it were not ATS-34, they would be going after some other steel. Because that is what they do.

Much like the 9X19mm/.45ACP debate in gun rags...it will never die...

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 03 November 1999).]
 
Thanks Don, you put into words very eloquently what I've been thinking during this whole debate.

I would like to add a wrinkle, however, and that is how prone some customers are to make a logical fallacy. For example, Cliff tries to clarify the relationship of ATS to toughness measures, and notes that according to the definitions he's used to working with, ATS is not as "tough" as A-2. Well, somebody comes along, reads that Jerry uses ATS and that ATS isn't "tough" so he passes on purchasing a knife from Jerry (this has happened to other makers as well). So, without meaning to , Cliff's statement hurts Jerry's livelihood because some potential customers come to the wrong conclusion.

Given that, I'm grateful that this has remained a pleasant conversation, and we're working on clarifiying our definitions. I know that if my methods of making my livelihood and feeding my family was misunderstood, I'd be pretty emotional about that. It speaks well of all involved that this has remained on such an even keel.

Thanks again Don,

Matt
 
Jerry :

[regarding toughness]

also find there are other attributes of steels that are important to
most users as well.

Of course, depends on the blade. For example the 10V blade I have is a short light utility model. 1/8" thick with a full taper. The 420V is a 9" fillet blade also with a full taper. It is 1/8" stock as well, but soon hits 1/16" and is 1/32" for a good length. Neither of these blades are tough or particularly strong. However they are tough and strong enough to be able to do the kind of cutting they are made to do, which is all that is important really.

according to the definitions he's used to working with, ATS is not as "tough" as A-2

Strength, toughness, ductility etc. all have well defined meanings from a materials point of view. This is how the knives are heat treated (material engineering) so it would make sense to be consistent with term usage. It is not like I am making up definations for those terms. They have set meanings just like phase states like austentite and martensite.

As for ATS-34 would I use it in a heavy use blade, no it would not be a choice I would make. However there are exceptions. For example I recently ordered a RCM from Livesay even though I think it will not be capable of doing what I want it to do because of the steel being used (1095, it is not particularly tough either). Why did I order it then, well because I discussed it with Newt and he says it can and I am willing to trust him. In direct relation to what is being discussed here, I am currently exchanging emails with Strider on their PAB which is a big heavy blade in ATS-34. If we are in agreement about uses and expected results I'll probably buy it.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04 November 1999).]
 
Back
Top