Best cheaper Spyderco wannabes?

FlaMtnBkr said:
There have been about 3 of those posts in 3 pages of the thread. Get over yourself. If you buy junk, you deserve junk.

I hope your $5 rip off hurts when it slams shut on your hand. Some lessons need to be painful.
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That wasn't nice :(

But I agree :D
 
I have to admit that this is pretty entertaining. But fair enough, I shouldn't have said "knock off," which I suppose has a lot of bad connotations. But if you read anything else that I wrote, I think that it's pretty clear what I want: something that makes a similar sort of knife (with similar quality and functionality) but is not charging for the spyderco name. I'm not looking for a fake, crappy watch with a rolex label on it or stolen property. Give me a break.

I think my analogies make this pretty clear. If "knock off" is interpreted the way that people are interpreting it above, then sigma is not a "knock off" of nikon, and Bark River is not a "knock off" of, let's say, Fallkniven (yes I'm sure there aer flaws in the analogy, but the idea is that Bark River tries to offer the same quality that other manufacturer's charge more for ... and that doesn't make it a thieving company that should be boycotted).

The idea that Spyderco should have some sort of perpetual monopoly on anything that approaches its knife designs is pretty silly to me. That isn't the way that intellectual property rights work, and it isn't the way free markets should work. IP rights should be the exception, and they shouldn't cover sweeping designs and concepts, but rather very specific innovations. I'm sorry but I just must not be as much of a fan of governmental meddling in the free market as the rest of you :-)

There do seem to be some good recommendations in all of this, I still need to ferret them out. Some of the more reasonable posts do make me think that maybe there just is no manufacturer that fits my description, which surprises me, since, like I said, I do think Spyderco definitely has the ability to get more of a profit margin based on its good name (anyone who doubts that should just read the parade of spyderco love letters in this thread).
 
And by the way, I don't mention a budget because I don't really have one in mind. My process is more of take a look at what is out there and then decide. I know I don't want to buy the most expensive spyderco or spyderco-esque knife out there, but I probably will go for something better than the bottom of the barrel. And here is a shocker: I might eventually buy a spyderco! I just don't know who their true competitors are, and I know that there is a lot of crap out there that are not true competitors ... hence this post.
 
I've read this thread a couple times, and I'm still not exactly sure of what you are after Kirk.

You seem to want to compare knife brands. If you had said something like the following: "I kind of like TOPS knives, but I don't want to pay for the name associated with them. What other knife company makes similar knives?" You would probably have gotten replies recommending ESEE (Rat Cutlery) or Ontario.

However, in application to Sypderco, this doesn't quite work. For one, Spyderco keeps costs down by using overseas manufacturing. For example the Sage series is made in Taiwan (with excellent quality control standards and fit and finish) and the Endura/Delica series are made in Japan.

Essentially, what Spyderco does is create a proprietary design, then finds a manufacturer who can produce their knives at the tolerances that they desire. Their factory in Golden Colorado doesn't have the manufacturing capability to produce all of their knives--they must sub-contract out surplus manufacturing from another company.

In order to side-step a long discussion on economics, generally goods are cheaper to produce overseas rather than in the U.S. due to various economic forces in the domestic market here. By producing a significant portion of their knives overseas, they cut costs. Thus, the relatively low price (for some of us) of Endura's and Delica's are able to be achieved by Spyderco.

In comparison to other companies - Benchmade for example - who make all of their knives in the U.S., Spyderco is able to put out a similar product for slightly less.

I will admit that I don't know much about cameras or lenses. So I am unsure of exactly what kind of background that you come from when start talking about camera/lense brands. However, in the knife manufacturing business a company which over-charges for their knives isn't going to last long against competitors like Spyderco, Benchmade, or Kershaw.

I believe there is a quote from Sal Glesser himself on CRK's that says something along the lines that one rarely pays for the name on something when manufacturing tolerances begin to get very small. If another company wanted to manufacture "knock off" Spyderco's at similar manufacturing tolerances, then they would have to go and find a manufacturer who would do so. I would find it hard to believe that a company attempting to manufacture "knock off's" would be able to machine similar tolerances for a significantly lower price than what Spyderco has done.

Edit: This is, of course, for their "budget" minded series of knives. Once knives start hitting the 120+ range, it becomes far more difficult to justify the cost to performance ratio. That applies to any brand/manufacturer, not just Spyderco.
 
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It seems like this all would've been easier to just ask for quality knives under some dollar amount. Spyderco offers a unique style that I think pretty much asks a reasonable amount. I don't think many of their knives are way over what could be asked, considering R&D, materials, overall quality, customer service, an owner that participates in open discussions with users, etc. There are however many other makers that offer quality products at all price points. If you're looking to spend <$15-$20, Opinels and certain Swiss Army Knife models would be some great considerations.

Reading the original post, it really did seem like you specifically asking for some rip off design rather than getting a cheap-enough Chinese made Spyderco, which wouldn't make much sense. Any rip off of Spyderco would literally fall apart if you tried to use it for any moderate job. SOG Knives has made some blatant rip offs of some of Spyderco's models and those won't be as bad as other rip offs, quality wise. However, I personally wouldn't support such unethical behavior in a company. Besides, as already mentioned, there are already affordable Spydercos available so it just doesn't make sense to go to a rip off.

I can understand the feeling of the need to defend yourself. You thought you asked an innocent enough question and felt attacked. I can also understand why you received such a response. Many thought the question was the equivalent to asking what the best way to kick a kitten was, lol. There are many choices at all price points. Maybe if you give us a little more specifics about what you're looking for, we can give some better advice (budget, opening method, lock, steel, what you'll use the knife for, etc). Welcome to the forums:).
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
I have to admit that this is pretty entertaining. But fair enough, I shouldn't have said "knock off," which I suppose has a lot of bad connotations. But if you read anything else that I wrote, I think that it's pretty clear what I want: something that makes a similar sort of knife (with similar quality and functionality) but is not charging for the spyderco name. I'm not looking for a fake, crappy watch with a rolex label on it or stolen property. Give me a break.

I think my analogies make this pretty clear. If "knock off" is interpreted the way that people are interpreting it above, then sigma is not a "knock off" of nikon, and Bark River is not a "knock off" of, let's say, Fallkniven (yes I'm sure there aer flaws in the analogy, but the idea is that Bark River tries to offer the same quality that other manufacturer's charge more for ... and that doesn't make it a thieving company that should be boycotted).

The idea that Spyderco should have some sort of perpetual monopoly on anything that approaches its knife designs is pretty silly to me. That isn't the way that intellectual property rights work, and it isn't the way free markets should work. IP rights should be the exception, and they shouldn't cover sweeping designs and concepts, but rather very specific innovations. I'm sorry but I just must not be as much of a fan of governmental meddling in the free market as the rest of you :-)

There do seem to be some good recommendations in all of this, I still need to ferret them out. Some of the more reasonable posts do make me think that maybe there just is no manufacturer that fits my description, which surprises me, since, like I said, I do think Spyderco definitely has the ability to get more of a profit margin based on its good name (anyone who doubts that should just read the parade of spyderco love letters in this thread).
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One thing I don't think you understand(unless you are just trolling) is that Spyderco offers some of the best value for the money anywhere. If you think that $50 for a Delica or $60 for an Endura is too much money for a knife then buy a Tenacious for about $35. If that is too much then I really don't understand why you would come to a knife enthusiasts forum. Go buy some junk from K-Mart.
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
But if you read anything else that I wrote, I think that it's pretty clear what I want: something that makes a similar sort of knife (with similar quality and functionality) but is not charging for the spyderco name. I'm not looking for a fake, crappy watch with a rolex label on it or stolen property. Give me a break.
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I think you missed the point of dozens of replies. You aren't paying for the Spyderco name. You are paying for Spyderco quality. Quality comes at a price. There is no such thing as a free lunch (Econ 101), which is what you seem to be looking for. The Byrd line is very good, but it is, unavoidably, a compromise.
 
To the OP: So how much were you expecting to pay for something close to the quality of spydercos but as you say not having to pay for the spyderco name? $5? $10?
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
And by the way, I don't mention a budget because I don't really have one in mind. My process is more of take a look at what is out there and then decide. I know I don't want to buy the most expensive spyderco or spyderco-esque knife out there, but I probably will go for something better than the bottom of the barrel. And here is a shocker: I might eventually buy a spyderco! I just don't know who their true competitors are, and I know that there is a lot of crap out there that are not true competitors ... hence this post.
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Ohhh..
Makes total sense. You're asking for spydero without spyderco.
A competitor should have morales. A competitor doesn't just copy their competitor's design and sell it for less.
You are asking for a spyderco looking knife, that isn't a spyderco, but performs like a spyderco? Good lord... Don't support copy cat companies. All they're out there to do is rip off the original company. Just by saying you might actually buy a spyderco one day doesn't make up for the fact you're looking for a clone.
If you really want quality with a spyder hole. Look at bryd, which is a branch of spyderco. You seem to think that price=quality. Just because a gas station is selling a knife for $40 from a brand that no one has ever heard of doesn't mean that knife is going to have the quality of lets say a 30~40 tenacious.
Remember- A competitor doesn't mean a person who copies another person's property and sells it for less. It WON'T be the same quality. Spyderco should own what it makes nor does it have a monopoly on the market. Brands like benchmade and kershaw are doing just fine on their original designs.


As said earlier you can't trust P.O.S copies of a knife it's going to hurt when it closes on you when you need it most.
 
You must not know anything about knives if you think you are 'paying for a name' when you buy a Spyderco. They offer great knives at prices cheaper than most other companies charge for a similar quality knife. They are known as a 'great bang for your buck' company. If you are looking for quality knives then check out Spyderco, Kershaw, and to an extent Benchmade. You will get a great knife at a more than fair price with each of those companies. These are the economy knife companies if you are looking for a quality modern folding knife at an affordable price. I don't know anything about camera lenses but maybe your analogies of lens brand/quality/price don't translate to the knife world.

A lot of times it is worth while to read more and post less until you educate yourself enough to know the basics. Usually people post what they are looking for, or are going to use it for and a price they want to keep it under to get knife recommendations. Asking for a brand copy or 'wannabe' doesn't tell anyone what you are actually looking for and willing to spend.
 
kirk_ferentz said:
and by the way, i don't mention a budget because i don't really have one in mind. My process is more of take a look at what is out there and then decide. I know i don't want to buy the most expensive spyderco or spyderco-esque knife out there, but i probably will go for something better than the bottom of the barrel. And here is a shocker: I might eventually buy a spyderco! I just don't know who their true competitors are, and i know that there is a lot of crap out there that are not true competitors ... Hence this post.
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get a sebenza!!!!!!!!!
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
And by the way, I don't mention a budget because I don't really have one in mind. My process is more of take a look at what is out there and then decide. I know I don't want to buy the most expensive spyderco or spyderco-esque knife out there, but I probably will go for something better than the bottom of the barrel. And here is a shocker: I might eventually buy a spyderco! I just don't know who their true competitors are, and I know that there is a lot of crap out there that are not true competitors ... hence this post.
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With knives similar designs are frowned upon spydercos look very unique and copying one would be like stealing someone's art. However if you are talking about equals to spyderco as far as quality go I have heard that benchmade and kershaw are both pretty similar to spyderco quality wise.
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
And by the way, I don't mention a budget because I don't really have one in mind. My process is more of take a look at what is out there and then decide. I know I don't want to buy the most expensive spyderco or spyderco-esque knife out there, but I probably will go for something better than the bottom of the barrel. And here is a shocker: I might eventually buy a spyderco!
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That seems fair enough.

For a Spyderco style knife that isn't the dearest but isn't the bottom of the barrel either and is good value for the money - what I would suggest is the Spyderco Endura flat ground VG-10 blade with FRN handles. You are looking at around $60 and I think you'll have trouble finding a better knife for less money (in terms of materials used and quality of construction). It would be my value for money pick for Spyderco style knives.
 
My mom always used to say "sugar coat your words, you may have to eat them later". If he keeps trying to dig maybe he'll come out in China where a lot of knockoffs are easily available.
 
cj65 said:
Don't say that!:mad:

Next, he will be inquiring about shovel knock offs. I can see the thread.....

Best shovel that is just like Ames.......
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But not a Chinese knockoff. He's willing to pay for quality, just not the Ames name.
 
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