Best choice for a hard use all purpose survival knife?

Gravelface said:
Straight Handle Steel Heart II
Click to expand...


Ya, what he said. :D

HMPSHs004.jpg


Or maybe the ASH-1 for a slightly lighter and more compact knife. :eek:

SH-18-17-08014.jpg
 
PeterPHWS said:
There are a few of us on here who have looked hard across the whole range of Busse blades released for the best offering as a general purpose wilderness knife, survival knife, camp knife and EDC.

The thing that many of us agree upon is that a "survival" knife that is "ideal" is unlikely to be carried all the time.

Most of us try and carry a compromise knife though when we go outdoors "just in case" ...
... of those I have looked at for this role I tend to settle on my Basic 9 or SAR8.
Click to expand...

Peter, your insight combined with field experience is something that I shouldn't dismiss so I have one last question (I hope)...
What is your opinion of the Sarge7 in comparison to the Sar8? Do you have any thoughts on whether the lack of jimping is a legitimate concern?
 
Last edited:
I have'nt got a Sarge7 ... when they came up at the Company Store and I looked at the photo it felt odd to see the design without the jimping there ... I guess I expected it to be there as this was part of the previous SAR series. This did put me off ...

One of the things I really like about the SAR8 design is the way they are so well thought through ... the handle gives a much greater chopping ability than the blade length dictates when you choke up at the rear of the grip. It is very comfortable doing this and makes an 8 inch blade swing like a 10 inch blade would do if held closer to the choil. This gives it more forward weight and better performance for it's overall size.

The depth of blade is ideal for a lighter form of carry. Still plenty strong and still able to split wood when batonning and the length of the blade enables you to baton through the ideal tree trunk size that you would a) Look to chop down if needing to construct a long term shelter b) Look to use for your "heart of the fire" if building a fire which would see you through the coldest part of a night and let you sleep warm.

The weight of the knife is a lot lighter than it looks. Noticeably lighter when held together with a NMSFNO. The OAL lends itself to my prefered form of carry. You can carry the blade on a rear diagonal draw with the knife held in tight to the small of your back and your back totally shrouds the knife so that your arm movement when walking or running is not catching on the handle or the lower part of the sheath ... which would be the case were you to carry a longer knife such as the Basic 11 in this way. This type of carry avoids the "flap flap" banging you have when carrying a knife in the normal vertical down carry and means when you need to ... you can run with the knife without sounding like an express train is on the move. Useful in the military because moving fast and quiet is the way to go. It also enables the knife to be easily drawn when prone, again a very useful thing if you are working in a Sniping role. It is also a useful form of carry when encountering "sheeple" in the hills ... a waterproof or a smock hides the knife if walking in the hills and you draw little attention to yourself ... very handy in this country.

Then there is the nuclear treatment on the spine and choil ... this makes for a very comfortable choked up grip. Something you will use a lot when working with wood for triggers on traps or carving for camp impliments. Holding the back of the spine up close by the tip for cleaning small birds or fish is also comfortable. Then finally there is the jimping. This is in the ideal spot for a long bladed knife because it is near the handle and when used for fire lighting using a ferro rod it gives good control. Put a clip point on a long bladed knife for the same use and the distance from the handle to the tip works against you for control. So I like the jimping. It can gouge the ferro rod a bit but it throws a real shower of sparks and you cannot have it both ways. Lighting a fire using a ferro rod is'nt just Bushcraft Snobbery ... if you learn how to do this you learn how to build the fire ... fire building is to living in the wild what a kitchen is to living at home ... combined with the central heating ... different sizes ... burn rates ... lasting times ... it all is relevant. Lighters and matches run out in days ... a ferro rod should be measured in months if not years. So having a knife that works with one is a "core" requirement for me ... and having to use the edge of the main blade is simply unacceptable. That is your primary tool ... and restoring an edge in the field is basically a sign of failure to look after it.

So for these reasons I struggle to choose knives like the NMSFNO or the SARGE7 ... sure you can carry a small piece of hacksaw to use on the ferro rod or bring out your SAK and use the steel saw blade ... but for me I see those options as a "backup" ... my most useful and important "tool" is my main knife and if it cannot work with a ferro rod which is probably my second most important tool ... then personally I feel disappointed.
 
PeterPHWS, you posts would have to be some of the most useful, insightful ones on the forum.

Chris.
 
Will York said:
You'll be glad you did. :thumbup: :D

Haven't had time to check in here for awhile. Caught a break and thought I'd pop in this afternoon, and I've enjoyed catching up on some interesting threads--many with your input. I always enjoy and value your advice, Peter. Your extensive experience in the field and your knowledge of the intricacies of tool and weapon design/construction put your opinions at the top of my list. Thanks for taking the time.

Will
Click to expand...
I agree - thank you Peter for the time you take to share your considerable experience; I always enjoy reading your posts!

Gene
 
PeterPHWS said:
I have'nt got a Sarge7 ... when they came up at the Company Store and I looked at the photo it felt odd to see the design without the jimping there ... I guess I expected it to be there as this was part of the previous SAR series. This did put me off ...
Click to expand...

Thanx Peter, I appreciate the insight. I have a blast match for lighting fires. I take i that you lean towards a ferro rod.
 
Mulder you are one truly sick man and apparently the only prescription is multiple straight handle Steel Hearts with some Ash on the side. That is one fine collection!
 
taiChiFighter said:
Ps. I think someone was saying (in this thread) that the spine on the the SARGE7 was sharp enough for a ferro rod?
Click to expand...

I have'nt seen that ... I looked at the pic posted of one and the spine seems flatter than the nuclear treatment but it looks to have a taper of the sides. The only way to work a spine on a firesteel effectively is to have a true right angle grind. The old Basic's had these. They work great. The more modern blades need to have the spine flattened to below the taper to work. For ease this is best done on the spine near the point as the taper is least there. The only issue then is the length of the blade works against you for control.

If the angle of the area where the jimping used to be is a true 90 degree angle then the SARGE7 would work just as well as with jimping ... at least for fire steel use ...
 
PeterPHWS said:
I have'nt seen that ... I looked at the pic posted of one and the spine seems flatter than the nuclear treatment but it looks to have a taper of the sides. The only way to work a spine on a firesteel effectively is to have a true right angle grind. The old Basic's had these. They work great. The more modern blades need to have the spine flattened to below the taper to work. For ease this is best done on the spine near the point as the taper is least there. The only issue then is the length of the blade works against you for control.

If the angle of the area where the jimping used to be is a true 90 degree angle then the SARGE7 would work just as well as with jimping ... at least for fire steel use ...
Click to expand...

Peter, I was looking at some Basics and the only thing that threw me was the fact that the butt tang was covered. Is it not useful to be able to use the butt of the knife like a hammer? If this is a non issue and I was able to get me hands on a basic 6,7,8 or 9 are there any models I should avoid?
 
The SARGE definitely needs modification to work with a fire steel...its way to smooth with the meltdown treatment it has. I still think it would be worth modifying (or at least asking Garth about the possibility) it with some jimping if you want a great weight: performance ratio. Of course I imagine a B9 is already packing w similar weight: peerformance ratio in its factory configuration...


Awesome posts Peter, your expertise is appreciated :) :thumbup:
 
taiChiFighter said:
Peter, I was looking at some Basics and the only thing that threw me was the fact that the butt tang was covered. Is it not useful to be able to use the butt of the knife like a hammer? If this is a non issue and I was able to get me hands on a basic 6,7,8 or 9 are there any models I should avoid?
Click to expand...

Please pardon me for butting in with my two cents worth until Peter has a chance to answer...

I suppose some would consider a through-tang an advantage to use for hammering, but I much prefer gripping the handle and hammering with the flat of the spine if I need that application and the 1/4" thick blade spines of the Basics provide plenty of thickness for that in my experience. I do not like exposed, pointed pommels for another reason. If I need to use the palm or heel of my hand to strike the pommel when starting the point of the knife into resistant materials, it's much more comfortable to have the butt of the tang flush on a rounded pommel or better yet, a rubber surface like the Basic handles for that application.

Just as a side note to your question about preferences between the Basics...note that the Basic 3 and Basic 5 have a smaller handle than the Basic 7, 9 and 11. The larger handle of the 7/9/11 gives more control and torquing/horsing power in my experience, where the smaller handle of the 3/5 has a somewhat more "precise" feel.

IMHO
 
Will York said:
Please pardon me for butting in with my two cents worth until Peter has a chance to answer...
... I do not like exposed, pointed pommels for another reason. If I need to use the palm or heel of my hand to strike the pommel when starting the point of the knife into resistant materials, it's much more comfortable to have the butt of the tang flush on a rounded pommel or better yet, a rubber surface like the Basic handles for that application.
IMHO
Click to expand...

That's why I have been intrigued by both the currently available Sarge7 and TGLB. The pommel tang is exposed but rounded.
 
hookahhabib said:
The SARGE definitely needs modification to work with a fire steel...its way to smooth with the meltdown treatment it has. I still think it would be worth modifying (or at least asking Garth about the possibility) it with some jimping if you want a great weight: performance ratio. Of course I imagine a B9 is already packing w similar weight: peerformance ratio in its factory configuration...


Awesome posts Peter, your expertise is appreciated :) :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I already asked Busse about modifying the Sarge7 and they won't. I'm surprised about this coming from a "custom" knife maker. The message got passed on by one of the receptionists so maybe my inquiry wasn't relayed accurately or didn't get to the right person.

It's really too bad, because, out of all the Busse models, a Sarge 7 with jimping would probably get me the closest to EXACTLY what I've been looking for. (taking Peters comments into account).
 
Last edited:
Didn't you already order a TGLB? i think you're going to be very happy with it. It seems to fit what you're looking for nicely
 
taiChiFighter said:
I already asked Busse about modifying the Sarge7 and they won't. I'm surprised about this coming from a "custom" knife maker. The message got passed on by one of the receptionists so maybe my inquiry wasn't relayed accurately or didn't to the right person.

It's really too bad, because, out of all the Busse models, a Sarge 7 with jimping would probably get me the closest to EXACTLY what I've been looking for. (taking Peters comments into account).
Click to expand...

Offerings from the Busse Company Store (BCS) such as the SARGE 7 are typically delivered to the store (in Idaho) prior to marketing, unlike offerings from the Busse Combat website. When you order from the Busse Combat website the knife has not been built yet, so sometimes there is more flexibility.
 
BePrepared said:
Didn't you already order a TGLB? i think you're going to be very happy with it. It seems to fit what you're looking for nicely
Click to expand...

I did but ... with all the info I was getting here I hadn't fully processed Peter's input. That said, if I am able to get a modified Sarge7 I would just sell the TGLB at some point or... get Busse to switch the order. In my experience I have always regretted any compromises in my critical equipment, no matter how good. I will go to great lengths to get it right the first or second time. Take my Glock 17 for example. When I got a gun I did some research and the G17 seemed to fit the bill perfectly (G19 is illegal in Canada). I got a Gen 4 and, after months of training with one of the best tactical shooters in the country, I realized that an older Gen 3 would have probably been a safer bet. Luckily the second Gen 4 that I got has been very reliable. 3 months and 4000 rounds later I have only had one misfire (which was likely bad ammo). Same with my folding blades. I had to get about 10 knives before I settled on the one that was closest to "right".
 
Last edited:
Ps. the "right" folder for me is
a) Emerson CQC8 (in a hostile urban environment)
b) Original large Spyderco Manix (if I don't need fast "wave" deployment)
c) Spyderco Waved Endura for EDC.
 
Last edited:
tCF- Check out the Urban Tactical folders from Mikkel Willumsen. NOW we're talking folders.
I hope this was ok to mention.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top