Best Double Bit

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Greykilt

Greykilt

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In your opinion, what is the best double bit axe, foriegn or domestic, on the market today and why? Construction, Cost, Feel, Availability, Please feel free to weigh in all factors.
 
You guys, Operator has finally lost his grip!

My favorite users right now are my heavier Sagers, but the one that gets the most use in my Collins Michigan pattern. Thin bits, easy felling.
 
Mine are Chemical. All on original hafts, sourced from the pacific Northwest. 1945, 32 and 48 I think.
 
Lord Son, I know of that which you have. I'm impressed. But I'm not sure if these would be "on the market" currently.
 
Operator1975 said:
So these Autine are all hand hammered by John then? No drop press or anything, right? They look machine forged to me.
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I guess upon reading the info on the site it looks like they are hand hammered. I wouldn't mind checking that operation out, making my own. Which would look like a blob of metal I am sure when I got done. These guys have some skill. Any blacksmith does.
 
There are a couple of guys on eBay that source axes, saws and other tools from the old Northwest logging areas. Just search Sager Axe for a while and some pretty good stuff comes up.

Autine's pretty, but do you want to drop $400+ on a single axe?

Council does have a nice double bit Michigan, but I've never tried it/held it.
 
I just looked at Autine's site. What does 8HF mean in terms of carbon content?
 
In Metalurgical Theory the ideal target for production steel chaneled for tooling grade or Tool Steel is an alloy with 0.8% Carbon. Rudementarilly speaking More (past Austenite) is brittle / Less (Hypoeutectoid) is soft. I prefer a root mean square of 0.8331% with at least 0.132 vanadium as in my opinion it is more mallable but you will hear varied opinions on this. (a little chromium is nice in the mix as well but we are talking axe heads not ratchet handles) Laminates not withstanding. Lord, lets not invite the San Mai III Cold Steel affecianado's to this tea party. Not enough ink. (Sorry Lynn C.)
Autine is simply marketing that 0.8% as an '8Hf' or 'Steel with a Hardness Factor of 8'. Just for fun try and order a steel flanchette with a Hardness Factor of 9 or 7. Doesn't exist, at least as tool steel. AUS 8A vs. 1055 Carbon? Both contain 0.8% Carbon or it ain't Tool Grade Steel. Now remember Tool Steel is Forged not Cast. And Japanese Steel is Folded not Pressed. That Clay Line on that Katana isnt just a beauty mark. But then again the Japanese Swordwrights were more Priest than Blacksmith. How else could you fold in the soul?
Remember Colgate Toothpaste with MFP. What in the world was MFP? No one knows but by golly my toothpaste has it! And my axe blades have a carbon content of 8Hf too! Jim Beam 100 Proof. 8HF means the steel is up to par.
And so is everyone else's steel tool that claims to be using actual tooling steel. Chrome Vanadium, Manganadium, Chromium, all monikers that play on alloy steel formulation to indicate to the public that 'our' steel is better than 'thier' steel. 0.8% is a real number for iron/carbon formulation. 8HF is a marketing phrase based on that number. Our axe is better because it has.......(Fill in blank)
 
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Honestly, I don't have much to add to this thread since I have not used any of the double bits on the market today apart from a Barco 'cruiser', of which I was terribly unimpressed with, but I can play the devil's advocate. :)

Square_peg said:
Council the best value.
http://www.counciltool.com/DisplayCategories.asp?pg=displaycategories&category=29
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Have you actually used many of their tools? I personally would not recommend Councils' axes as having the best value, unless their double bits are of significantly better quality, steel or otherwise, than their single bits...

On the other hand, I fully agree with you on restoring vintage axes.
 
Hi, Sparrow. Nice to see you on the forum again.
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The problem is that their just aren't many choices left if one wants to buy a new double bit. You've got the high-priced Euro-imports with their flat cheeks. You have the big box Asian-import crap. And you have Council. Do you know of some other option for a new double bit?

My experience with Council is mostly with their pulaskis and a few axes. I do trail work. I've used and sharpened many of their tools. Their Forest Service Spec pulaskis have pretty good steel. The regular grade stuff is a bit softer but still OK. It's not up to snuff with a vintage True Temper Flint Edge.
 
Hello Bo T,
To clarify a question you had about a reply I made on the 'Quality Axe for $50-$70' thread originated by CC hays:
My daughters been following my ramblings and she has informed me that the Carbon Index of 71% from the School of Mines Data Sheet should have been writ as 0.71% & Grandpa's old axe is now a Wee Softer than it used to be. I apologize for my err. (Our little girl is the one with the "ejamacashun" round here)
 
i would go with the granfros broks duble bit axe, but if you are on a budget the condor duble bit michigan axe is verry nice.
 
GB's double bit is a throwing axe - not designed for chopping. Condor's double bit is a saddle axe with an 18" handle and 1045 steel. Neither is suitable for work.
 
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