Best Double Bit

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Square_peg said:
Do you know of some other option for a new double bit?
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No, I do not. (I had thought that by stating previously that I don't have much to add to this thread, I had myself covered.) ;)
I'd be happy to hear from someone unbiased (who has actually put a lot of their tools to the test) that Council have decent steel quality, but I'm speaking only from my experience. You have obviously used more of their tools than I, so I shall not argue. However, I keep noticing references on this forum to Council's axes being "very well made", "excellent quality", etc., often from the self-expressed 'newbies' who may not have put said axes through a very thorough testing before coming to their conclusions. Rather, the frequent assumption (correct me if I'm wrong though) seems to be that if something is made in the USA, it is surely of superior quality...


Apologies, Greykilt, for taking your thread off topic. And, a belated welcome to the forum!
 
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Sparrow92 said:
No, I do not. (I had thought that by stating previously that I don't have much to add to this thread, I had myself covered.) ;)
I'd be happy to hear from someone unbiased (who has actually put a lot of their tools to the test) that Council have decent steel quality, but I'm speaking only from my experience. You have obviously used more of their tools than I, so I shall not argue. However, I keep noticing references on this forum to Council's axes being "very well made", "excellent quality", etc., often from the self-expressed 'newbies' who may not have put said axes through a very thorough testing before coming to their conclusions. Rather, the frequent assumption (correct me if I'm wrong though) seems to be that if something is made in the USA, it is surely of superior quality...


Apologies, Greykilt, for taking your thread off topic. And, a belated welcome to the forum!
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I am sure an axe made in Canada could rival the quality of a Council axe.
 
Big ditto on Peg's post.

From the manufacturers you listed, I have tried none, but I have an Iltis Oxhead single bit felling axe, and the steel is quite good. Of the list, I would suggest the Oxhead.
 
I don't have any experience with Ox Head brand on any model but they do come highly re ommended by some of the firefighters and flame jumper teams that come through during wildfire season. A lot of these volounteers fund thier own kits and are self equipped so if they are buying these tools for themselves I wanted to look into them. Very rare to see a double bit on a jump team so not sure what kinda dub U they manu. Thoughts?
 
Nickzdon you are correct. I was more ranting about marketing styles when I compared Aus 8 with 1055 and niether is a good steel for axe heads. I meant to type 1095.
Aus 6, 8, & 10 are stainless steel from Aichi Manufacturing, Japan. The 10xx series of steel is 1035, 1055, 1060, 1070, 1080, rarer 1084, & 1095. These are high carbon steels and 1095 if heat treated well is still one of the best tool steels in the world. For comparison 1070 falls into a carbon % of 0.65-0.75% & 1095 is between 0.95 - 1.10%. I was pointing out how marketing compains focus on naming the steel by a recognizable number and in so doing kind of insinuate that into the consumers head. You ever really truly ever purchase a knife or an axe because of its advertized steel name? Maybe you have but most of us are impressed with look and feel more so. Any axe rated Tool grade or Tool steel is a high carbon steel of 0.80% or better.
Autine advertizes 8HF on its steel axe heads. This they imply makes thiers the best and so when you the buyer go shopping you look for 8Hf and only one manu. Co. has it, so on so on.
Sorry for my ramblings and poor typing skills.:)
 
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Most of the steel that I work with is bar stock and round stock that I am able to purchase from a smith supply house. I am never going to bring a block of AUS 10 up here and do anything with it. I can shape it I can mill it but I can't forge it. S S already set. lately about the last decade or so I have been taking railroad spikes and old wood rasps and large steel files and trying to turn those into functional and historical replicas of the Green River style knives, axe, hatchets, and some trail Hawks.
But even so I'm not able to test the stock that comes in. I have to rely on what's stamped on the bar stock. If I get a mis stamped block and it happens its not readily apparent until its under heat. Most smiths have a strong magnet or 2 and that will give you some indication of iron props. Stainless has enough crystals (vanadium/nickel) in it that it loses its magnetic property so before I slow kiln an old tool head I'll hit it with that first.
 
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jpeeler said:
From the manufacturers you listed, I have tried none, but I have an Iltis Oxhead single bit felling axe, and the steel is quite good. Of the list, I would suggest the Oxhead.
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Another one to look at for small axes and hatchets is Stubai of Austria. I have one of their broad hatchets and it is quite good steel. Holds an edge very well.
 
Peg- is that a distinct company from Mueller of Austria? The tools look similar in shape, but I suppose that wouldn't be out of the ordinary.
 
Both these brands are mail order only? Do you knoe any stores that carry ox or or Stubai?
 
Speaking of Ox-Head double bits:

scruffuk said:
...
This is their 'Ochsenkopf 1591223 OX 16 H-1008 Axe Twin-ILTIS®, Model Canada'
(Specs from site)
Weight of head: 1000g
Edge length(s): 135mm
OAL: 900mm
OAW: 2100g

Anyway, it arrived yesterday and it leaves today....it just ain't got enough meat in the cheeks!

Here are some pics (take on my iPhone at work :o)

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Nice turn ups huh? ;)

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Its like a flat piece of steel that someone has drifted and eye into (it probably is just that to be fair).

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No percevable belly or 'high centre' what-so-ever.

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They have rounded off the 'fragile' toes

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Acceptable masks but made from what I believe is bonded leather. Its a good job it was so blunt ("you could ride bare arsed to Blackpool on it!") as I don't think it would have lasted long against a keen edge.

Whilst the balance of the axe seemed okay, I could not get over the extraordinary (to me) size of the helve at the shoulders!
Its like they are compensating for the lack of heft of the axe with all that wood. I'm sure it would have penetrated nicely, but I think it would have been tiring to lever out. And, with its slim profile, it put me in no better stead than my current axe predicament, where wood processing is concerned, and certainly not worth the effort of sharpening!

This was really a disappointing 'venture' but as we are, in the UK, protected as a consumer by the Distance Selling Regulations, I knew at the very least, I'd only be down £20 or so delivery/return.

The axe (inc. taxes) came in at £87.31 ($140!!!).
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Steve Tall said:
(written by Peter Vido)

...a suitable chopping ax should not only sink into wood with relative ease, but also release itself from the cut sort of “automatically”. By this I mean that just a slight tug will bring it back to starting position without disturbing the “chi” of chopping. (I am not talking of splitting right now, though the principle is the same). The “high centerline" convex-ness of a fuller-faced ax helps in this regard because the wood has less surface to “grab onto/squeeze/hold” than if the sunk portion of the ax face is flat.

I noticed this years ago (and before I read much ax-related “how to”) when I first began using the double-bitted Ox-Head to fell green poplar trees. In spite of a very positive initial expectation for this famous “ringing” ax, I eventually concluded that a plain old American model was easier to use. In any event, I could cut more wood in a mornings-worth of chopping with the latter, regardless of whether it was a Plumb, Collins, Walters, Campbell, etc., or for that matter the Swedish axes made for the North American market in the past. The Wetterlings would fit into that category as well, because its (“full”) face is convex-sided. I might add that our impressive-looking Ox-Head double-bit has been collecting dust for many years...
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jpeeler said:
Peg- is that a distinct company from Mueller of Austria? The tools look similar in shape, but I suppose that wouldn't be out of the ordinary.
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I've noticed the similarities, too. I don't know if they're related.
 
Thank you Steve for pics and review. Seems a bit on the thin side? Cuts deep but won't release. One's arms would wear out real quick. Scratch Ox Head off the list.
 
Greykilt said:
Nickzdon you are correct. I was more ranting about marketing styles when I compared Aus 8 with 1055 and niether is a good steel for axe heads. I meant to type 1095.
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Ha! Thanks for the clarification. I reread your post 3 times thinking I was missing something!
 
Yeah, my Oxhead doesn't release especially well, But I have the one handled at 27" and use it as a limbing axe, not a primary felling axe. High penetration is important there. Good article though, glad it was posted.
 
Quite curious about the disparaging remarks regarding Ox head dbl bits. I was kinda thinking any old forge or factory with access to soup cans and a few leaf springs can make overly thick and clumsy implements but it takes skill to make something thin as possible and yet durable. The featured double bit, that was headed back to the store, is advertised for competition purposes (at least the Lee Valley ones are) and I would think a skilled and highly motivated 'chopper' wants the thinnest blade and cheeks he can come up with.
 
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