Best knife steel in use today

What? I don't follow. That is indeed what the chart shows though, now that you mention it.
 
Twindog said:
Is CPM D2 really tougher than M4 and A2? And are 154CM and D2 really equal in wear resistance? Those things surprise me.
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That chart is suspect as there is no CPM 154CM.


Where did it come from?




Back to "Best Steel".


As in life, everything in knifemaking is a matter of balance,

...metallurgy, heat treatment, and edge geometry all must be tailored to usage of the knife.
 
CWL said:
I do have a fondness for Rosta Frei steel.
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Rosta Frie!! I am not worthy.
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I think my favorite is Buck's 420HC. It has a good blend of corrosion resistance, edge-holding, sharpenability, and ease of sharpening.

I almost said 'chrome vanadium', but I had to admit I like to be able to lick the apple juice off a blade without tasting carbon sometimes. :)
 
What we need is a standardized testing protocol with repeatability and consistency across separate testing facilities. I think that each steel should have its own broad category. Then the next subcategory should be for heat treat protocols. Under each heat treat protocol there will be various "standardized" grind profiles. Under each grind profile there will be standardized testing protocols including edge retention, abbrasion resistance, time from standardized edge dullness to standardized sharpness based off electron microscope profiles or cutting test. Of course, a standardized sharpening method will be used. Man, the data availible from this kind of study could be ground-breaking. Immagine the bar graphs! No more speculation and opinion fueling online debates!
 
Everyone giving the poster a hard time, this is a reasonable discussion topic..... And we are here to talk about steel.Now for my noob response....Affordability also plays a part, for me, I own a lot of vg10, 12c27, aus8 and 1095 because it's good steel and cheap, but if I had my choice, 3v or s90v i also loooove zdp 189. Their are many steels ahead of the pack I didn't mention, but I will never need more from a steel than what these offer but as someone mentioned above, sometimes the best can be overkill. Steel is moving with technology and your 3v will be outdated in 9 months! Let's call it the highlander steel!
 
Joe

Sending you an email for you to read.
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Thanks for the links Marthinus. Some of those I remember, the one from Des Horn I've never read before. Only 5 years but it seems like a long time in the knife industry. Things are always changing. It's more expensive now but the choices are getting better and better for knifemakers and end users alike.

Joe
 
Gator97 said:
True, but once you find it results are astonishing. I got one, Fred Haakonsen Vanadis 4E Utility knife. Even at 66HRC and edge close to 12-14 per side, not a single chip for more than 2 years. Can't say I've tried to chip it, but cardboard, wiring, wood, plastic, etc, all worked fine. Add there high wear resistance and you have a winner, or very close to that. Although, rebeveling that knife was a real biatch.
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Gator97

As your graph shows vandadis 4E and cpm 4V seems comparable

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=Vanadis 4E,CPM 4V&ni=,4360&hrn=1&gm=0

I wonder if they would perform the same.
Crucible uses first generation powder technology while Bohler-Uddeholm uses third generation.
 
The steels that seem to stand out for me are:

VG-10
S30V
CPM-154CM
CPM-M4
ZDP-189

They take a polished edge without too much pain and they sharpen up fairly easily.
 
The Mastiff said:
Thanks for the links Marthinus. Some of those I remember, the one from Des Horn I've never read before. Only 5 years but it seems like a long time in the knife industry. Things are always changing. It's more expensive now but the choices are getting better and better for knifemakers and end users alike.

Joe
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Joe

Glad you had a good read. As I said, that is only my opinion for best balanced steel offered to the public and knife maker without pushing the price up. Sometimes listening to the talk surrounding steels it becomes apparent that we sometimes chase a very small, even unperceptive "better change" when it comes to steels.

This is great for knife nuts, however if we are all honest, most people in the world have a problem keeping their kitchen knives sharp, those are not even made from any of the high quality steels we are spoiled with.

I have met people having problems getting 440C (one of the "super steels" in its day if I am not mistaken) sharp. Knife nuts will laugh at that, but its true. So for a maker, trying to get his name out there, not catering for the knife/steel nuts, it makes sense for me to use 12c27, 440C, N690 for the average user.

I just want people to also think on the other side of the coin for a person new to knives, or from a makers perspective trying to offer a best balance for clients for performance and price. Many of the steel discussions completely forget the last point I am trying to make.
 
Gator97 said:
I don't think the hardness of the alloys in that chart is identical, and on top of that, individual hardness is most likely what is recommended for particular tooling, not knives. As such, the graph doesn't really help to understand what'd happen if any of those alloys was used in a knife.
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They are usually pretty generic and for general reference.
 
For me vg10 is best all around steel for folders and small knives.I like 1085 for bigger stuff!
 
marthinus said:
Joe

Glad you had a good read. As I said, that is only my opinion for best balanced steel offered to the public and knife maker without pushing the price up. Sometimes listening to the talk surrounding steels it becomes apparent that we sometimes chase a very small, even unperceptive "better change" when it comes to steels.

This is great for knife nuts, however if we are all honest, most people in the world have a problem keeping their kitchen knives sharp, those are not even made from any of the high quality steels we are spoiled with.

I have met people having problems getting 440C (one of the "super steels" in its day if I am not mistaken) sharp. Knife nuts will laugh at that, but its true. So for a maker, trying to get his name out there, not catering for the knife/steel nuts, it makes sense for me to use 12c27, 440C, N690 for the average user.

I just want people to also think on the other side of the coin for a person new to knives, or from a makers perspective trying to offer a best balance for clients for performance and price. Many of the steel discussions completely forget the last point I am trying to make.
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440C is by nature hard to sharpen due to the Chromium Carbides from what I understand.

And for me, the best overall available seems to be CPM-M4. It does okay in large choppers(not ultra heavy duty ones) and is fine for small slicers.

But CPM-M4 is a distant second to Rosta-Frei. I hear they use Rosta-Frei to diamonds for rings.
 
Neo said:
...I wonder if they would perform the same.
Crucible uses first generation powder technology while Bohler-Uddeholm uses third generation.
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Yeah, they are pretty close for all practical purposes. I guess it depends on the maker. And yes, based on what I hear from knife makers, BU 3rd gen alloys seem to be more reined and cleaner compared to CPMs.
P.S. Thanks for the heads up on CPM 4V, that steel wasn't on Crucible site last time I checked it, about a year ago...
 
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