Best overall pistol for my scenario?

[para-frame]

While the amount of shooting practice would be great, the idpa matches and such mostly use highly modified handguns with redicuously light triggers that are not practical for defensive carry and are not representitive of something that one is likely to buy and carry.

No offense sir but you have no idea what you are talking about. IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) is founded on and continues to be about the use of practical guns you would actually use in self defense. Even the most "open" class, ESP (Enhanced Service Pistol) puts strict restrictions on size, weight, sights and trigger pull weight, does not allow optics or "race" or "competition only" gear and has strict rules on holsters, positioning of gear and cover garments.

 

[Simple Man]

I agree with para-frame. I'll even go further to say that the IDPA is incredibly supportive of new shooters that show interest. The OP needs to at least give them a chance and go sit in on one of their (most likely weekly) matches. There will be at least a few folk willing to answer any questions, but I bet several will be almost tripping over themselves to help out.

As far as I know, most all the guns used by out local IDPA folk are off-the-shelf and not modded in anyway.

---------EDIT---------

Here is a link to IDPA Firearm requirements, see and judge for yourself. Some "normal" modifications are allowed, but not much.
http://www.ccidpa.org/idpa-legal.html

 

[paltak]

Update: with all the great suggestions and many of you taking the time to share your knowledge and experience, I feel that I owe you an update.

An experienced enthusiast at work took me to the range the other day, and what an experience that was. He brought a .22, 9mm, .45 and another one I cannot recall and plenty of ammos. Guys, I've never held a gun before let alone shoot one but there was not one of them I didn't like. All were very different but also fun in their own way. The best part is I got the basics down pretty quickly and my shots were pretty tight. Man, I loved the power of the .45!

Afterwards, we had dinner and talk guns. He was just as happy to have passed on some of his knowledge, he called it paying for it forward. It was an unbelievable night, invigorating is probably more like it.

As I mentioned before, the wifey is still not crazy about a gun in the house. As a compromise I will probably keep it in a safe in the basement in the beginning. Since I told her how much fun I had, she is now open to going to the range with me, after I become more proficient of course.

I will continue to try different guns, including revolvers before making decision on my first gun. I have to admit though I'm really liking the .45. I called WC to inquire on the build time for an X-TAC and was told 12-24 months Definitely when the wife goes with me, I'll start her with a .22.

Thanks everyone! Cheers!

 

[AustinOX]

I'm a little late to the party but I'll play. A couple of years ago I would have said that if you're only getting one gun, get a Glock 19. It's concealable, yet offers adequate grip length and sight radius, it holds a ton of very capable 9mm ammunition, has a light rail,
and is hell and back reliable. Don't let anyone tell you 9mm won't kill somebody, I work for a medium size city that carried Glock 9mms until about three years ago, and our officer involved shootings were usually fatal for the bad guy.

Now, however, I carry a Springfield XD. I own or have owned every mainstream brand of handgun (and if I don't have it, my brother does...) and I simply can't recommend a finer self defense gun. You can spend more money, but theres no reason to. It's built like a brick s***house, and the ergonomics put Glock to shame. The striker operation means the same exact trigger pull from your critical first shot to your last.

One final thought, before you go building a single stack 1911 that holds 6-8 rounds, keep in mind that in a self defense scenario you won't have backup or a timeout. Consider a double stack pistol in 9mm or larger. If you have to have something really slick, shiny, and expensive Sig Sauer has some very pretty offerings that are combat worthy at the same time (and .22 conversion kits so you don't violate your one gun agreement)

 

[para-frame]

He lives in IL, he is limited to 10 rounds. I don't know about you but I'll take 8+1 or 9+1 rounds in .45 ACP over 10+1 of 9MM, all else being equal.

 

[AustinOX]

Good point. I'm comfortable enough with the effectiveness of both calibers but 45 has an edge. Of course the XD45 holds 10+1

 

[paltak]

Thanks guys, another .45 that I'm kind of eyeing is the SA loaded black stainless range.

Pros or cons between 4" vs 5" barrel on .45 in general?

 

[exitium]

Thanks guys, another .45 that I'm kind of eyeing is the SA loaded black stainless range.

Pros or cons between 4" vs 5" barrel on .45 in general?

Are you looking to conceal and carry? Ive got a 4.5" XMD 45acp, awesome gun but honestly a bit large to carry. For my carry gun I am looking at getting XDM 3.8" (comes with 2 mag sizes, short and one that extends grip) or the XDS which is a single stack 45acp and a tad smaller yet than the 3.8". For self defense the best gun is going to be the one you can carry at all times. A 4" or 5" is not going to be of any benefit if its too large to carry and the additional velocity and accuracy imparted by the longer are likely not going to have any bearing on the outcome of a self defense situation.

There are a lot of solid guns out there so I would say to handle and if possible shoot a bunch and see which fits your hand. Caliber is strictly a personal choice, you will get as many recommendations as people you ask. As others have said, I also find the 45 to be less "snappy" than the 9mm or 40sw. The 9mm wins when it comes to affordable ammo but if you shop around you can get bulk 45acp ammo for $330 per 1000 rds which isnt too bad.

 

[kamagong]

Exhilarating isn't it? Welcome to the world of gun ownership.

May I ask why you focused on the X-Tac? I'm only asking because for your first, and maybe only, firearm you might want to consider going with q gun with checkering instead. Checkering is classic, and still effective. 10, 20 years from now the X-Tac's cross hatching may look dated and kitschy. That's unlikely with checkering.

If you are looking at the Black Stainless, I suggest taking a look at the Springfield Professional or Custom Carry. Built by their Custom Shop, these models are built to order and are better guns than Springfield's production offerings. Quality is on par with Baer, Brown, and Wilson.

 

[paltak]

May I ask why you focused on the X-Tac?

Because I have a matching Starbenza, LOL... I will research the others you mentioned as well. Thanks!

I don't plan to Carry this gun, mostly for the range. For that purpose is the 5" barrel better?

 

[kamagong]

That's as good a reason as any I reckon. For everything other than carry, the 5" is superior. Less recoil, easier to shoot, larger selection, easier to build right, greater aftermarket, etc.

 

[Yellowhorse]

Since you say you want a gun for self defense, ignore all advice about a .22cal. I've been daily carrying (started while in the Military) a .45cal for over 40 years and swear by them. I shoot at every opportunity and also reload. I also competed for a while in IPSC ( International Practical Shooting Confederation). I am very experienced and have learned much over the years but would not call myself an "expert". I DID stay at a Holiday Inn Express once though. Ignore any comments about how bad the recoil is on a .45cal. is. My 9 year old grandson shoots mine and loves it. It's all about technique. Learn how to do it properly and you will have no problems. Ignore comments like "my 9mm hits just as hard as a .45. Nonsense! Think physics. A 155mm Howitzer hits harder than a 110mm Howitzer - always. My very best advice is to contact a training center for armed self defense. Preferably one that offers training for LEO, State and Federal Officers. Simply going to a range is not enough and more than likely you will get advice from people that shouldn't even speak on the topic. Get trained by people that train others for a living, it's worth the cost. Practice more than once a month or you will never be proficient at it.

You have a $5000 budget? I would suggest looking here http://www.lesbaer.com/ for starters and click on the 1911 link. Most are under $2000 but they run all the way up to over 10 Grand. Made here in the USA. Also try http://www.novaksights.com/customguns/ (my gunsmith for the last 25 years) Call both of them and get their advice on what would fit your wants and needs. You will still have plenty of money left over for accessories (holster, extra mags, ammo, etc.). Spend some of it on training. I can't emphasize that enough.

 

[AustinOX]

.45acp ammunition was originally optimized for, you guessed it, the 5" barrel 1911. Modern .45 ammo will penetrate and expand properly in barrels longer than 4", but people argue about its performance in barrels shorter than that. If you're not going to conceal it there's no reason not to get the advantages of additional velocity and longer sight radius of the full size gun.

With your budget you could get into a great factory custom like a Springfield TRP Pro, or track down an unused Colt Gunsite edition. I had a Colt Gunsite CCO and it is quite possibly the gun I most regret trading off- although the ensuing trades netted two four figure Mad Dog knives and about $600 in custom work on my AR-15...

 

[harkamus]

If you're deadset on a 1911 and willing to pay what you said, I'd consider Pistol Dynamics as well. They make custom 1911s and use ZERO mim parts. Everything is machined or forged.

Pistol Dynamics Signature model:

Pistol Dynamics Scout:

And for your 1911 purists, he lets you pick an internal extractor too if you want to go that route.

 

[kamagong]

If you're deadset on a 1911 and willing to pay what you said, I'd consider Pistol Dynamics as well. They make custom 1911s and use ZERO mim parts. Everything is machined or forged.

Pistol Dynamics Signature model:

Pistol Dynamics Scout:

And for your 1911 purists, he lets you pick an internal extractor too if you want to go that route.

An excellent suggestion and the way I'd go if I had a $5k budget. I'd go for the Combat Special though.

 

[harkamus]

Had to look up the Combat Special. Nice looking piece.

Pistol Dynamics Combat Special:

I haven't shot a 1911 since I got an HK45, but have since gravitated back to 9mm with a custom CZ. Not that big a fan of 1911s. If some custom maker manages to make a 1911 with a slide in frame set up, I'll get one.

Might as well post my CZ since a thread is worthless without pics.

Yep...that's a barrel bushing on the slide. The gun is good for 2 3/8 inch groups at 50 yards.

 

[cjd1980]

Spend $550 on a Glock 19, and then spend the rest on ammo and training.

that and a quality holster

 

[brizbane]

I have been shooting/carrying a long time, but my opinion is no more valid then the next guys.

If you want a pure fighting handgun, a Glock 21 Gen 4 .45cal is hard to beat. No safety to worry about, ultra reliable, big capacity, affordable, ergonomic and very quick into a fight.

Now if you want something a little classy, just as reliable and ergonomic, then a Wilson of Les Baer are awesome handguns. I am sure there are other 1911s that are as nice, but these I am very familiar with. Fit and finish is awesome and they are worthy opponents in any fight, just a little slower to action because of the safety.

So, the best of both worlds: get the 1911 and the Glock and you will be very happy.

 

[harkamus]

Cocked and locked is fine IMO. It's a matter of training. I've had guns of each type. My HK was set up like a Glock. The HK had an LEM (double action only trigger with the trigger pull weight of a single action and the reset of a single action) which meant every trigger pull was the same. It also didn't have safeties; most LEMs don't have safeties unless you install them yourself. I don't feel any less trained with either of them. I think it's all comfort level and the owner familiarizing himself/herself with the tool. People like to bring in the bit about in panic situations you may forget to disengage the safety lever. There's also tons of people that have trained and carried 1911s that never have this issue. It's a scare tactic. If safeties were the devil, then you'd see a trend in firearms manufacturing where guns are becoming exceedingly striker fired without safety levers.

There is only a handful of striker fired guns on the market. There are more da/sa or sa guns out there. They're not going away. A safety lever is not a detriment if you practice disengaging or carrying da first shot safety off.

But to get back on point (sorry for the slight rant), the guy might be willing to spend several thousand which is fine if he has that kind of money as long as he commits the time shooting the gun and becoming proficient...unless he wants the gun as a safe queen and glorified paper weight.

OP sounds kind of like me. Buy something once kind of guy.

 

[mercop]

Just for target shooting I would suggest a Ruger MK II in 22 Long Rifle. For a very accurate and less expensive than most center fire auto pistol I would suggest the CZ 75.

Also want to throw it out their that I teach open hand combatives, impact weapons, edged weapons, and firearms as integrated system. We do a lot of force on force scenarios and drills. People who do a lot of competing with firearms typically do very poorly when the solution to the problem is something besides pulling the trigger.- George



- George