Best self Defense Folder from Spyderco?

I

IZZY

Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Messages
17
Salutations to all,

I would like opinions on the best Spyderco floder for self defense and every day knock around/city carry. I had an Serrated Endura vg-10 FRN but I have now given it to my Father for the same self defense puposes.

I would like to say the Spyderco "Military" but I am concerned about the liner lock. I like the police in all steel (with some kind of adheasive grip enhacer, of course), but I am concerned about the fragility of the point since it's hollow ground. Would the new ones in VG-10 steel solve this problem.

I would like to have the serrated versions (Spydie edge) since this gives me @ 20% more slashing ability and longer times between sharpening.

I could buy annother Endura FRN but I am concerned about the theoretical possibility of lock failure under bone and flesh self-defense conditions.

To give you an idea of why I am so concerned, a few monthes ago an angry mob attacked some friends of mine in Israel while the police stood by and watched. Two of them were stabbed, one by a 70 year old woman. Other friends of mine have been drugged out of Jerusalems taxis, had their head bashed by concrete bolcks and mislabled as "arab victims" by AP. I will be in the country soon enough...

Legal restrictions: Any folding knife over 10 centimeters is illegal. Any fixed is "leagal" but the police confinscate everything any how and usualy return the knife blade in two pieces, so despite the fact that I have a hadngun permit, I need a discrete city blade as a back up. A real SNAFU, I know.

For the "country side" (where I live over there) I have purchased this: http://www.cutlerytogo.com/cucmat.html

Any suggestions on the best spyde for my needs?
 
Hi IZZY,

I would recommend the Matriarch.
The blade comes in at 92mm and they can be found for $70-120 on many sites.

Stay safe, be aware.
 
Regarding lock strength, any of the "MBC" blades have much stronger locks than the other Spydercos. The ones that come to mind are Gunting and Chinook, and of the two my personal choice is the Gunting, and I believe it is well within your blade length limit. The Harpy is even smaller, and a wonderful little knife for times when discretion is a must. In my opinion, the Harpy's lock is very strong for the knife's small size. Hookbill type knives such as the Matriarch and Harpy are not effective for stabbing but are very well suited for some simple defensive techniques. James Keating sells a tape with instructions on the use of the Spyderco Civilian, which is a hookbill knife, and Graciela Casillas shows some very simple and effective tactics with hookbill knives in the "Masters of Defense" tape available from Paladin Press.
 
I say the Gunting but you really need the training to be confident with it. If you have acess to the training then I recommend both the Gunting and any of the seminars that go with it.

If the training is not an option then the Chinook sounds like it may be for you.

***Although the training with the Gunting is highly recommended the same could be said for any MBC knife***
 
VG-10 SE MBC rated, 1 wicked knife.
And it sits fairly low carried IWB, with the black Micarta it can be hid effectivly. Ron
 
sc_rebel1957 --

I believe the Ayoob has Almite handles, not micarta.
But I do agree, it's one wicked knife.
 
Thanks to all for some intresting options.
How bout' this:
http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?SP77SBK

Should I just buy two merlins for that price?

The Matriarch is intresting but I worry about the tip being fragile.
After reading posts about the Police model tip breaking/bending i do worry a bit about that.

I do like hook bill knives, I already have a merlin over there...neat little knife, I will probly give it to my girl or a freind for thier own Self Defence.

I have annother question.

I was just on the Spyderco web site and could only find one knife (via search function) that had the MBC rating...any alternitive site to give the MBC ratings. (That was something new to me!)

I am not sure i want aluminum handles, other than that the Ayoob looks good.
 
One of my favorites is a tired old Wegner. the knife is quite thin, blade is strong, and it still locks tight as a drum even though the liner lock is all the way over now. It's also VERY smooth, and feels great in any number of grips. It opens VERY VERY VERY quickly with the four small zip ties I have across the top of the Spydie hole, and they don't interfere with normal openings. And one of my favorite things is that if I ever do use it for protection, it doesn't have "TACTICAL!!!!" written all over it.
 
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Spyderhawk. It doesn't have the same tip strength issues as the Matriarch.
 
My "dream knife" in the hookbill category would be a Harpy blade with a Civilian G-10 handle. For this type of defensive use, a large blade is not so important, and would be legal in more places, and the large, "grippy" handle enhances handling. I am hoping that when Spyderco finally produces a karambit, it will have these characteristics. Meanwhile, I am thinking about approaching a local knifemaker with a Harpy and a Civie and having a long talk.........
 
Since you want a dual purpose piece that will act in the role of an EDC utility as well. I'd suggest the Starmate, discontinued but still available from a few dealers if you search. I'm only suggesting the Starmate over the Military because it has a slightly beefier liner lock. I think both would be fine in the role you specified.

If you have little or no training, I'd suggest a larger/longer blade. Short blades require more skill to range in deeper to make contact(exposing yourself more as a target), and you'd have to contact with as much of the edge as possible to produce a serious wound, it may be necessary to wound them more times than with a larger blade that produces more damage per full contact strike. The less times you have to attack, the less you expose yourself to counter attack.
If you have a decent amount of training and physical agility, then I'd say go for the smaller models, otherwise stay safe go for the larger blades(as much as you can legally carry).
And I'm speaking only from the point of view I've gain from my training time in Pekiti Tirsia. All IMHO.

take care,
Ken
 
Everyone will have their own opinion with this sort of thing, they always do and used correctly almost any spydie will serve you well.

My choice would be either a Ayoob or a Gunting. Both were engineered by some very smart ppl and I think both rock. The Ayoob is really low profile and I often put one in the inside of a coat pocket as another backup.
There is nothing that I can say abt the Gunting that has not been said better, have a look around the forum and see what others had to say.

Good luck, stay safe, train hard.
 
Exactly gentlemen!

I am torn between the sky hawk or buying another Merlin.

Some times in the Angry Angry East the Military or Border Police or regular police will take your hand, and if the blade lays across and potrudes past 4 fingers they will take it any ways even if it's less than 10CM...its all very abitrary.

Advantage Merlin.

If you are in the city, say Yerushalayim(jerusalem) you must go through metal detectors to get into the central bus station and all bags are scanned/searched. (One time I went through there with 2 Marine Raider Bowies in boxes, and in my bags...on my way home from the airport after staying the night...no problem right? Wrong. Got drugged off to the side and interrogated. Fourtunately the law was on my side though they made it seem like they were diong me a favor by letting me and my goods go.)

All supermarkets and malls have hand held ferrious detectors and security personnel who size you up and search your bag, usualy in a very sloppy mannor.

Advantage Merlin.

On the other hand. One day I actualy expect to get mobbed by 5 or more jackals, since I do go to east jerusalem quite often, and people get bottles, rocks thrown at them, and stabbed on a regular basis...and have while I had been around.

Advantage Machette. (Just kidding, sort of, well not really)

Advantage SpyderHawk.( or http://www.lutel.cz/index2e.htm ):rolleyes:

I dont really have any formal training per say in knives, just grew up with them and I realize the truth in the sage advice of having a larger blade. A hookbill with serrations does go a long way to making up for lack of penitration, but does not adress the "comfort zone" you get by sticking a 10" blade in front of you.

In a gang situation I expect they will mob me and it will get close up and dirty very quickly. My main fear is that they will pull my hadgun from me before I can use it first! ( a sneak up attack from behind, Gun carry is open in Israel) My second concern is that the wepon would jam or I'd have no ability/time to reload.

OR

That I would feel unwarrented in using the pistol and realize too late that I'm in deep kamichi. this happens all to often as folks are afraid of the "law."

But a small hookbill carried in the cusp of my hand could mean a ready wepon with no static from the "law" and would allow me to clear a path to a "safe zone" and chaimber a round (or pull back the hammer depending on carry condition/ threat level etc.) Especialy when you are in the winding mid-evil streets of the Old City.

Dang this is beginig to sound like a novel. :)

Other chioces:

Old Wenger _will have a look see.

Cive/merlin hybred. A pound puppie? :)

So far I am leaning twords the spyderhawk.

If only I put so much effort into every decision I ever made!
 
Maybe its just me, but I dont like Mosad Ayoob personaly (or any other writter in "Guns and Ammo") and can't stand that "krav Mega" mess.

Am I letting my personal taste get in the way of Self Defense?

Or, is a small hawk bill superior to a small straight knife? I suspect you would not get vital organs any way, so best opportunity is "slash and trash" (Soft targets, face, eyes, veins, belly, arteries, hamstringing,Grion, etc.)

I think its between a Spyderhawk and an Ayoob for now.
 
Carlos, thanks for the pic of the spydyhawk,, alot clearer that the one I saw before and shows that it is plenty beefy in the tip.

I would love to buy 4 spydies: Spyderhawk, Ayoob, Police, Merlin

But at most I can afford one or two (if cheap enough).

I appreciate all who respond and give me new ideas.:cool:
 
Originally posted by IZZY
Maybe its just me, but I dont like Mosad Ayoob personaly (or any other writter in "Guns and Ammo") and can't stand that "krav Mega" mess.

Am I letting my personal taste get in the way of Self Defense?

Or, is a small hawk bill superior to a small straight knife? I suspect you would not get vital organs any way, so best opportunity is "slash and trash" (Soft targets, face, eyes, veins, belly, arteries, hamstringing,Grion, etc.)

I think its between a Spyderhawk and an Ayoob for now.
Click to expand...

Possibly, Iz, possibly you are letting some bias come into play with your decision. Then again, all purchases are so personal.

As for Masaad Ayoob, the man. He's so highly respected in firearms circles. What else is there to say?

I don't know how deep his skills in knife design go so I have no opinion there. I don't like the unconventionality of the Ayoob however. It's just too left field for me but I must admit, I don't appreciate it only because I probably don't understand it.

As for Krav Maga, I've only seen it at a superficial level but admire it for it's down and dirty approach to hand to hand combat. No pretty moves. Just whatever works. Hey, how can you argue against the legendary Israeli commandos? Personally, I like systema, the Russian elite forces' martial arts which combines Russian sambo wrestling, judo, kicking/punching, and disarm techniques. Sorry I digress. Don't get me started on martial arts talk! ;)

As for knives, self-defense is one time where I think bigger is better. So for Spyderco, I like the kitchen knives (because they're big), Fred Perrin fixed blade, and in folders: Police, Military, and Civilian.

The Gunting is good if you are a martial artist, or want a more non-lethal, humane weapon.
 
IMO, the best knife for self defense, assuming that you are not trained in MBC is the Civilian. Highly specialised. However, due to that 10 cm blade limit, it is likely that you won't be able to carry one.
In this respect, you could consider the Matriarch. It is true that its tip may be fragile, but even if it breaks when you defend yourself, it saves your life, so it will worth the price ;)
There is also the Merlin.
OTOH, I greatly recommend Bram Frank's Gunting, but you'll need some MBC classes in order to take the best out of it.
As for myself, I carry a Meerkat (SE, reversed S) for self defense. It is small, thus less legal problems, and strong enough to repell an attacker. I mean, you don't need a Civilian to defend yourself from a 70 yrs. old woman. You could actually kill the wench with it, for God's sake! :eek: And if the bad guys carry firearms, no knife could really defend you :(
 
One not mentioned yet (i don't think so at least) is the Lil' Temperance. 3" 440V blade that's wide and thick for it's size. The lock is MBC rated. It is a compression lock and it is very solid and secure. The grip literally locks into your hand. The best designed grip I've ever held in a self defense folder. There are two blade styles to choose from to best suit your personal needs. It, by no means, is a small knife.

I've owned one for over a year now and still carry it daily. Never used it in a self defense situation but it's great for everyday cutting chores. It's the best Spyderco yet IMHO.

Here is a quick list of other to consider:
Ayoob
Civilian
Merlin
Spyderhawk
Chinook (MBC rated)
Gunting (MBC rated)
Police
Military
Starmate
and...I'm sure I missed something.

Good luck and be careful out there.
 
In east Jerusalem the bad guys dont tend to carry firearms...but that may change. Out in the "territories" they have a lot of armaments.

That is why I feal a small spyde for city is ideal, along with my 9mm pistola.

Lil' Temprence? Hmmm. Nice to see the MBC rating.

Well I think you guys just about covered all my spyde options. I want to thank you all for giving me solid advice.

I should make my chioce in a few hours.

Adios Amigos,

IZZY
 
If I were in your situation, I think I would buy a real good 5" chefs' knife. You can get a pretty good one for $50 or so, they work pretty well and are alot easier to explain than a tactical.
 
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