Best self Defense Folder from Spyderco?

Sergiusz Mitin · Dec 13, 2002

Originally posted by V-1
One not mentioned yet (i don't think so at least) is the Lil' Temperance. 3" 440V blade that's wide and thick for it's size. The lock is MBC rated. It is a compression lock and it is very solid and secure. The grip literally locks into your hand. The best designed grip I've ever held in a self defense folder. There are two blade styles to choose from to best suit your personal needs. It, by no means, is a small knife.

I've owned one for over a year now and still carry it daily. Never used it in a self defense situation but it's great for everyday cutting chores. It's the best Spyderco yet IMHO.

Oh, finally the most sensible knife for self defense in current SPYDERCO production line was mentioned!

IZZY,
I would avoid Civilian, Matriarch and another similar blades, also Ayoob. They do not have any utility use and probably you could have problems explaining the police why you carry them. Especially taking into consideration somewhat restrictive law regulations you have described, for ex. that handgun carry permission doesnt absolve you from liability for knife carry as itself.

With Lil Temperance it is hard to go wrong because it is specially designed to keep within quite restrictive legality limits. On the other hand it is designed for self defense applications. Using certain fighting techniques it is possible to recompense the lack of blade length with blade width, especially if our task is not to kill your assailant just to incapacitate reasonably rapidly forcing him to stop an attack.

As small very, very last chance backup you could use also their new SPOT neck knife.

Tim Vegner and Bob Terzuola Starmate are discontinued, however if you could find them either could serve you very reliably for self defense purposes being at the same time quite decent utility tools.

Edited to add photos...

baraqyal · Dec 13, 2002

Sergiusz,
I don't think that the Ayoob is inherently tactical looking - just unusual. My girlfriend says it looks like a goose.

I agree with you about the Lil Temperance - it's a great knife.

Izzy,

Have you considered a big pepper spray fogger? Are those legal? That would definitely slow down a mob.

Or, how about a folding baton? Gives you the advantage of longer reach, and can be fairly effective.

I don't know what knife would be most effective. I would guess that either pepper spray or a baton could give you a little more breathing room than a 10cm knife - maybe enough to escape. I could be wrong. I've never been confronted by an angry mob.

Good luck, stay safe.

-- Rob

sc_rebel1957 · Dec 13, 2002

Drew thanks I stand corrected, I was fumbling with my micarta Calypso Lg when I logged that reply.
Still a great choice i think though.
NO utility use?

You could always say it was a bread slicer

Ron

systema · May 31, 2003

a

Originally posted by Full Tang Clan
The Gunting is good if you are a martial artist, or want a more non-lethal, humane weapon.

Like Full Tang Clan I would say, that in the moment the Gunting is the best self defense folder from spyderco, because it provides a non lethal application and a very sharp blade and tip for other applications...
But, as with other tools, you have train with it to be effective!
I'm also looking forward for the new ATR, as a very good self defense folder!!

Originally posted by Full Tang Clan

Personally, I like systema, the Russian elite forces' martial arts which combines Russian sambo wrestling, judo, kicking/punching, and disarm techniques. Sorry I digress. Don't get me started on martial arts talk!

Sorry, but I have to correct you: Systema is a martial art system on it's own and is definitly not a mixture of other martial art techniques!!!! This is very important!

Greetings
Systema

Ferrous Wheel · May 31, 2003

What you need is a small knife for EDC, and a mass weapon for defense, such as a club, collapsible baton, strong metal ruler, axe handle, or hatchet. They have better reach, cause more pain and incapacitation, and are relatively non-lethal. or, if you're worried about mob-like group attacks, please consider pepper spray on some other chemical deterrent. Check your local laws for those, though.

During the roits inn LA, I know a number of folk who carried concealed handguns, regardless of the illegality. They were of the mind that they would take the changes on the law so they wouldn't hafta take chances with theri lives.

Keith

bquinlan · May 31, 2003

If you want to stay in the 3"-or-less blade range for self-defense I think it comes down to a choice between the Lil Temperance and the Gunting. Both are outstanding designs aimed at somewhat different fighting styles. Both can also serve in a utility role, although I think the Lil Temperance is stronger there.

You really can't go wrong either way. I would recommend the Lil Temperance for those who do not intend to train specifically in knife fighting and the Gunting for those who do.

I would also like to second the recommendation of the Spyderco S.P.O.T. as a backup knife. I really like finger-hole knives for all sorts of purposes and the S.P.O.T. is the best design of that type I have seen. (I modified mine for belt carry by drilling two holes in the neck sheath and mounting a Mini-TekLok on it.)

--Bob Q

Dijos · May 31, 2003

The Gunting is, I feel, the best MBC knife out there, period. It can be used as a regular knife easily. and has a continuum of force thing going for it. Plus, there's lots of info surrounding it..HERE --Joe

dialex · Jun 2, 2003

The Lil'T is a very well designed knife, a good EDC, with excellent steel(s) and it's MBC rated.
Now if we came this far, you can carry a hammer! It's not a knife but definitely a tool and you may use it successfully for self defense.

FullerH · Jun 2, 2003

Izzy, you said that the legal limit is 10cm. That works out to 4 inches, leaving the Police and the Matriarch just over the limit at 4.125" or 10.5cm. I don't know how touchy your police are about blade length, but there are jurisdictions here in the USA where that .125" would make a difference. Here are some Spydie suggestions that fit under your 10cm limit.

Keating Chinook with a 440V blade of 9.5cm length and a back lock. Its sturdiness is legendary.

Li'l Temperance with a 440V blade of 7.6cm length and a Compression Lock. It also is built like a tank and comes in two blade styles, a trailing point or a leaf point. I much prefer the leaf point, but I would think that the trailing point would be better for self-defense, as it does back-cuts better, just as the sharply clipped point on the Chinook does.

Gunting with its 7.6cm blade of 440V steel is, far and away, the best martial arts knife here, but it does require training to take full advantage of it and it also takes considerable care in its use if you intend too use it as an EDC. The "horn" on the blade makes it all too easy for te blade to be started open in your pocket, an awkward situation at best. It also has a very dedicated martial arts appearance that might work against you, although Bram Frank, its designer, has spent a great deal of time in Israel, your home as I interpolate it, familiarizing the military and the police with the implement as a system of graduated force, so that might be of some help to you.

Matriarch was initially designed as a last-ditch self defense weapon for women being attacked, hence the name. The Matriarch is what they call the leader of a herd of elephants in South Africa, one of the two initially targetted countries, the other being Israel. It is a pure defense weapon, designed to hook into flesh and to do as much damage as possible as it slices out. It looks as wicked as it is, from what I have read, and its big brother, the Civilian, is a truly nasty customer in the hand, as I have tried one out in "play". The Matriarch is 1.27cm shorter than the Civilian and is, if anything, better in that it has a more durably designed point. The blade is 9.2cm of ATS-55 steel.

Now for a very interesting possibility, both Bayou LaFourche Knifeworks http://www.knifeworks.com/product.asp?3=1718 and Knifecenter of the Internet http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?SP59BMP claim to still have the Shabaria in stock. This was a design, now discontinued, by the late, and very much lamented, Eduard Bradichansky, an Israeli knifemaker who was murdered by terrorists a couple of years ago. He and Sal Glesser had collaborated in getting this one and the Spydercard into production. I think that the design would make a great self defense choice as well as a good EDC and it has a 9.68cm blade of VG-10 steel, an excellent material. Knifeworks' price is $97.99US + shipping and Knifecenter's price is $107.95US + shipping. And there would seem to be a certain justice in one of his knives returning to Israel as a personal defense weapon.

The General · Jun 2, 2003

I think any quality blade with a stout tip would surfice. What *side of the fence* are you commenting from Izzy? I am interested to hear your perspective on the troubles as I only see whats on TV and the truth is very hard to garner from our sanitised media.

Hope you don't mind answering, perhaps in an e-mail or PM?

I would go with the Gunting, Spyderhawk or perhaps the Military (esp the S30V model)

Revolvergeek · Jun 2, 2003

I think I would go with:
1) Chinook
2) C48 Wegner
3) Lil Temperence ( either blade)

Does the law restrict you to only carrying one knife?? I actually don't like the Hawkbill blades for this sort of scenario where you will only be carrying one defensive knife. If you dig that tip into a bone, wallet, heavy leather belt or anything else that catches it, you run the risk of losing the knife or at least being slowed down long enough to give someone else an opening.

I love my Harpy, Merlin and Sypderhawk, but I have always carried them as a partner to a more traditional pattern blade. When I was travelling a lot for work to non-CCW states, I would carry a SE Merlin on my offside with a CE Delica on my strongside, with the idea that the Merlin would be used to hook and trap while the Delica did the most of the cutting.

If you do carry the Harpy/Merlin/Spyderhawk, try to pick up a copy of James Keating's Civillian video. It is very informative and may give you a few new ideas (it opened my eyes a lot to what this style of blade can do beyond just ripping and slashing).

dialex · Jun 3, 2003

Originally posted by FullerH
Now for a very interesting possibility, both Bayou LaFourche Knifeworks http://www.knifeworks.com/product.asp?3=1718 and Knifecenter of the Internet http://store.knifecenter.com/pgi-ProductSpec?SP59BMP claim to still have the Shabaria in stock. This was a design, now discontinued, by the late, and very much lamented, Eduard Bradichansky, an Israeli knifemaker who was murdered by terrorists a couple of years ago. He and Sal Glesser had collaborated in getting this one and the Spydercard into production. I think that the design would make a great self defense choice as well as a good EDC and it has a 9.68cm blade of VG-10 steel, an excellent material. Knifeworks' price is $97.99US + shipping and Knifecenter's price is $107.95US + shipping. And there would seem to be a certain justice in one of his knives returning to Israel as a personal defense weapon.

Yes, the Shabaria, how could I forget this one! It is an excellent knife both for utility purposes and self defense. A VG-10 steel recurved blade, with a sharp tip and enough belly to cope with any cuting chores. The dual SS linered handles, covered with black micarta slabs, though unusual looking, allow once you get used to them, an easy way to change the grip quickly. The "pommel" can be used as a striker / glass breaker, with the knife either open or closed. Add the open construction for easy cleaning and maintenance and the posibility of customizing the knife for tip up carry (factory default is tip down carry) and you have a winner. It has a linerlock, but as long as I carried mine, I never had problems with it.

Oh, just one more thing (off the record). E. Bradichansky was born in Orhei, Romania.

Ken Cox · Jun 3, 2003

No doubt about it: the Native.

First, it has a real usable point.
A recent essay by Jeff Cooper (Guru of the Gun) has convinced me that the point of a knife plays the paramount role in self-defense.
Whether or not we kill, maim or disable the person attacking us, we want to remove his will to fight.
We want to discourage him.
A coulpla pokes with a good point seems to have more of a discouraging effect than does a lot of slices.

Or so they say.

Secondly, the ergonomics of the Native make major use of its itty-bitty teeny-tiny 3" (77mm) blade.

Thirdly, the truly ambidextrous clip and lockback make it possible to experiment with several different carries.

Fourth, the price.
If one loses a Native for any reason he can replace it more easily, money-wise.

Fifth, its appearance doesn't alarm (too much) friends and fellow employees when used for everyday things.

PartialSerrations · Jun 7, 2003

Best thing going since sliced bread for self defense. Many people say it's on the heavy side though. I had my pocket clip drilled for tip up carry so this helps a lot. The Massod Ayoob Folder takes a close second. The one thing I like about the Massod is that it rides really low in the pocketand the pocket clip can be made to draw the knife immediately in the reverse grip without any extra movements. The Chinook lock strength is solid as well and slashes most excellent. It also can be used to butt as well. I hope this helps.

IF WAR IS HELL, TAKE A BETTER PITCHFORK THAN THE DEVIL

Centurian · Jun 8, 2003

I love the Civilian, its about the most wicked sharp knife I've owned. However, it's ability to also function as a utility knife is VERY limited, if not impossible.

If I had to choose one good all around Spyderco knife, I'd look to the Police, Chinook and the Lil. All are great knives.

Jasonhg · Jun 13, 2003

I would say two delicas, they are legal anywhere, they are simple to use, they look civil, they are inexpensive. www.insightstraining.com runs an outstanding course which is developed off of the original spyderco clipit defense course which goes back at least ten years now and is quite effective.

jim_l_clifton · Jun 13, 2003

Guys,
You all mention the G & then say,but you have to train with it!!
ANY knife you choose "YOU HAVE TO TRAIN WITH IT"!!
Jim

Dijos · Jun 14, 2003

Jim, now don't mislead people-you know that some knives leap out of your pocket and defend you by themselves, and others are so well designed that you instantly become a ninja!

(please find sarcasm)
--Joe
CSSD/SC Student.

ccoates · Jun 17, 2003

I would put in a plug for both of these as well. People talk about the G as having a non-lethal to lethal continuum of use, and this is very correct. The more advanced non-lethal techniques certainly do require some Gunting-specific training. However, simply using the G as a pocket stick and as a basic knife does not require Gunting-specific training. It doesn't take much to learn to kinetically open the G, and once you have that under your belt, you have a very effective tool, even if you never use the other features.

It would still be wise to take some blade training though!

One thing that I don't think has been addressed in this thread (I may be wrong, I just skimmed it) is access and deployment. One of the *best* things about the G is that you can just yank it and go. You can pull it and just start pounding, using it as a pocket stick. Or, you can open it, kin-op and it is a blade. The G, along with Emerson's waved knives, is one of the only folders I know of which can be (relatively) easily opened under extreme stress with gross motor skills.

The Lil'Temperance is also a great knife. It has an extra large thumb opening hole, which helps a lot. Also, there is lots of exposed spine if one has to fumble it open two-handed... The grip is awesome, and actually almost makes sabre grip feel solid... ;-). It is also a great utility blade. It is ugly, but not necessarily "tactical" looking, which can be a plus in some places.

One thing to think about is that if you are in an environment where you are likely to get a blade confiscated, it will hurt a lot less to have a delica come back in two pieces than a temperance or gunting...

Clinton

johnniet · Jun 17, 2003

Originally posted by FullerH
Izzy, you said that the legal limit is 10cm. That works out to 4 inches, leaving the Police and the Matriarch just over the limit at 4.125" or 10.5cm. I don't know how touchy your police are about blade length, but there are jurisdictions here in the USA where that .125" would make a difference. Here are some Spydie suggestions that fit under your 10cm limit.

According to the Sypderco page the Matriarch is 3+5/8 inches.
Hugh probably meant the Civilian, which is 4+1/8 like the Police.
In fact, Hugh mentions the Matriarch later as a possibility:

Matriarch was initially designed as a last-ditch self defense weapon for women being attacked, hence the name... The Matriarch is 1.27cm shorter than the Civilian and is, if anything, better in that it has a more durably designed point. The blade is 9.2cm of ATS-55 steel.

Of course, I figure the best knife for self-defense is the one you have on you -- which for me would probably be one that I use in normal life.