Best self-defense folder?

[Parker]

Buy the best knife you can afford.

If you can afford a good framelock buy one. Sebenza, Strider, some of the BM offerings, etc.

Keep it CLEAN. Keep crud, muck and other detrius out of the pivot, lock-mech and other important moving bits.

Make sure you have 100% tang to lock contact on that framelock. None of the early lockup nonsense. 100% contact gives you the best odds your knife will not fold up like a cheap hooker taking a belly punch if you have to stab someone with it.

My Sebenzas all have the lockbar travel 100% across the tang. In a photo it is a solid three-point lock-up between the slabs and the lockbar holding the blade solidly in place.

My striders all have 100% contact on the lockbar against the tang. Again, the geometry of the design is what makes it strong and simple.

I prefer a Sebenza for actual working and cutting tasks, though the Strider SNG has better SD ergos for me personally at this point in my own evolution. These knives can interchange in their use and I'm not picking one over the other as a raw tool. Either will serve well.

HOWEVER, since the discussion is about the tool, if you are carrying it as a weapon, try to NOT swap out some sort of "rotation" without a good reason. Each folding knife has a little different feel and technique to opening it, and since self-defense is a high-stakes and high-adrenaline game, your fumbling fingers need to be clamping on the tool out in utter familariaty.

I prefer a knife which gets out of my pocket easily. As a result, I do not carry knives larger than a Sebenza or SNG if they are folding knives. Some of the larger folders have a LOT of handle to remove from your pocket. It's a personal preference.

I used to really like Enduras, Delicas, etc (backlocks) for carry knives, but after having a failure to lock due to a little sand in the lock-notch on the blade, I stopped trusting them for such matters. YMMV.

I've had enough poor experiences with liner locks to never carry one again. The framelock has my hand clamping the lock in place, the liner does not. It's my knife and my reason.

And I recently sent an Axis lock back to BM since it had crud inextricably stuck in the lock and would not engage 100%. BM suggested it was perhaps not the lock for me. I agree, it's not. It relies on a pair of open channels letting crud and grit into the knife and it's lock.

Keeping any of the above clean minimizes these pitfalls, but I prefer the most reliable mech in my own using experience, which is a framelock. Never had one have a failure to lock in 8 years.

 

[Ankerson]

So, avoiding the sitation in the first place is aways the best option, and running away when confronted is a close second. However, neither of these are always possible.

When you are confronted with a life-threatening situation and can't run, a handgun would certainly be my first choice, but if that wasn't available I contend that a knife is better than bare handed, with or without training.

Keeping it real that is true.

Awareness is the most important thing period, if you are aware of what is going on around you then you can avoid almost every problem. But then if you go into the bad part of town late at night then what happens to you is your problem, it could have been avoided.

It really doesn't matter if you have a gun or a knife really if you get attacked by someone or a group that knows what they are doing you are screwed because you won't see it coming. You will be either on the ground, stabbed or maybe shot before you can react. This isn't Hollywood and you ain't Steven Seagal or Chuck Norris no matter what your MA teacher says or what you may think, nobody is THAT good.

So like some of the others here recommend, run you freaking butt off if you can while you have a chance. Fight only if you have no other choice, but just by being aware of your surroundings can save you butt most of the time.

Awareness and common sense are your best weapons that you have. A knife can save your life if you are forced into that situation and it's better than nothing if you can't run.

 

[stabman]

It really doesn't matter if you have a gun or a knife really if you get attacked by someone or a group that knows what they are doing you are screwed because you won't see it coming.

Luckily, most peole who attack folks DON'T really know what they're doing.

 

[Ankerson]

Luckily, most peole who attack folks DON'T really know what they're doing.

I really wouldn't say most don't know what they are doing, never underestimate anyone or what they might do. If they get the drop on you all the guns, knives and MA training won't do you any good at all. Surviving will be pure luck or maybe out of the goodness of the attackers heart they might let you live.

It's not like they are going to tell you they are coming and stand 20 feet away from you giving you a chance to do something or react. Like I said it's not the movies or some fantasy situation that some so called MA, or SD trainers cook up.

It's good to have something on you though just in case you do happen to be forced into a situation where you have to fight your way out. That would be the worst case scenario though. If you are aware you can usually really avoid bad situations before they happen. They really don't have to know what they are doing because sadly MOST people really don't know what is happening around them so they happen to be easy pray for them. Trust me you can walk right up behind MOST people and they won't even know you are there, you could dance around, load up 3 guns, sharpen 2 knives and smoke a cigarette then attack.

Yeah that includes a lot of the mall ninja types too, I HAVE WALKED up behind them within blade striking range and they never knew I was there just to prove a point to some then tapped them on the shoulder, they where told this would happen before I did it also. If I tapped them on the shoulder they were already dead. It was a drill we used to run when I was helping out a friend who ran a SD school.

The kind of awareness you need all the time is like what a Woman has when she is walking out into a parking lot in the dark alone. Believe me they hear every little sound and they don't miss anything because they are watching everything and paying attention.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

Never had a linerlock failure in 13 years.

 

[Noctis3880]

1) The best knife is the one you have on you.

Does that include a ceramic knife(blade will snap off before it cuts anything), a swiss army knife(takes 5 minutes to find and flip out the blade), a Spyderco Atlantic Salt(no tip), or any other knife with various features that make it unsuitable as a defensive option?

It's unreasonable to suggest that one knife isn't better than another for one particular purpose.

2) Knives arent worth dick as a self-defence weapon

Neither are guns, tasers, and pepper spray when you think about it(well, maybe not the pepper spray).
Guns can't be carried around(where I'm from at least), and it's hardly concealable for the most part. Deployment(no round in the chamber, safety off) is slow at best.
I imagine that tasers are also slow to deploy, as there must be certain safety precautions to prevent you from accidentally turning it on and shocking yourself. Range for civilian models are typically 15 feet, thus providing less range than a firearm. I'd also imagine that if you miss your target, you'll be left wide open for retaliation. The close contact civilian models are said to need a significant contact time(5+ seconds) to fully incapacitate a target, during which time the perp can shove his knife in your eye sockets. I'd also think that if the perp touches you at the same time, you'll get buzzed as well.
Pepper sprays must hit the face(and get into the eyes) as opposed to a firearm where you can hit anywhere on the target. And yet again, I would assume that there is some sort of safety mechanism to prevent accidental spraying, which would further serve to slow down deployment.

All self-defense items require proper training to use, just like knives. Also like knives, they give the user a false sense of security which encourages reckless behavior. From where I'm standing, knives don't seem to be much worse than anything else available.

Though personally, the sonic screecher seems like the best option. Of course, it might not actually help if the perp is brave(or too baked on drugs to have any common sense), or if no one's around.

3) Its no good unless you train with it every day

Again, the same is true for all things self-defense.

4) Don't buy a knife, buy a gun.... (and train with it every day)

A knife you can carry around in your pocket. I see a little problem trying to do the same thing with a gun.

For crap's sake doesn't anyone EVER use the search function here???

Rant OFF

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=794&a=114

Doesn't anyone READ around here?


*cough* Back on topic...

I've set my eyes on the Cold Steel Scimitar and Spyderco Chinook. I haven't considered the wave openers because of the limitation to clothing types.

The claw-like blade of the Spyderco Civilian certainly looks threatening, but I suspect that the blade would simply become stuck on flesh and get ripped out of your hand easily. I also think that the tip is more likely to break off with that shape than anything else, which makes the knife unappealing for the price tag. Of course, there's no way to be certain short of dicing into a hunk of raw meat with that knife. To me though, I think that knife is really more like the ultimate deterrent by having the most threatening appearance possible.

I'm personally leaning more towards the Scimitar. The thumb studs seem to allow more force in opening the knife, so a slightly tight screw shouldn't hamper the opening much. I've also never recalled "missing" the thumb studs in any instance, so I doubt it'll be a problem. I like the way the tip of the knife curves upwards. I personally feel that the curved tip, in addition to the plain edge profile will essentially allow the knife to "glide" through anything. If the knife hits something it can't cut(thick jeans, metal, or bone), it'll simply "slide" off the object instead of cutting caught on it. I typically prefer to use a slicing motion rather than stabbing. This should eliminate the risk of having the tip snap off. The blade is considerably long, and the handle design simply increases the striking range. And at a low $73, it would be my cheapest knife by far.

The only thing holding me back thus far is the fact that I know nothing about the VG-1 stainless steel. I don't know the HRC, toughness, or corrosion resistance(would hate for it to rust in my pants because I haven't used it).

 

[3mptin3ss]

i have the scimitar and chinook. the chinook opens nice and smoothly with no problems. the thumb stud on the scimitar is a small round steel ball, my thumb always slips off of it, i have a hard time with it. i usually dont have many problems with thumbstuds, though the ones on the scimitar are smaller and rounder than normal.

 

[cutter17]

Don't know if these would be the best defensive knive's, but since I rotate between the two as of late, one or the other would have to serve the purpose. The two I am speaking of are ZT0200 or Kershaw G-10 Tyrade. My intent, everytime I slide one or the other in my pocket, is not self defense rather it is the enjoyment I get from carrying a quality and well made piece of cutlery. I will admit that late at night in a dimly lit parking lot I do think "what if?" I do pay attention to my surroundings, and the people around me which is one of the best ways in avoiding a self defense situation, at least that is my practice and opinion.

 

[tirod3]

For all those who can't carry a firearm - sorry. Your experience is a geographically limited one in the US - if you are responding from here. CCW is the preferred choice among the experienced, knowledgeable, and professionally qualified. They may carry a utility knife as backup, but not as a primary weapon.

If you are an unpaid member here, there is no Search. What is interesting to note is that a lot of new members do come in with a preconcieved notion that a knife is, and can be argued, a reasonable self defense weapon. Others chime in about the special restrictions in there locale that force the choice. Again, not a majority situation in the US, and not the solution.

The reason the question keeps popping up is precisely who it comes from - the inexperienced, the uneducated, those lacking professional skills, or the localized inability to get a concealed firearm permit.

Sure, there are lots of us who like to EDC a nice knife that could be placed in the huge umbrella category of tactical - we also recognize and persist in telling anyone who will listen that choosing a knife for SD is a third rate solution.

So, I'd like to add, why does "everybody" keep ignoring the advice?

It doesn't meet the fantasy needs of the OP's. They still have a lot to learn.

 

[thejamppa]

About Boxars: Boxars were able to overwhelm by numbers their advosaries and when westerners go re-inforcements and numbers were more equal look what Bolt-action rifles and maxim machine guns did to boxar rebellion...

Life ain't movie. Gun beats knife 90% of the cases without breaking a sweat. In order to beat guy with gun if you have knife you need element of surprise.

Your best self defense weapon is your brain. Use them so you don't get in situation where you need self defense. Soldiers, cops and such excluded of course...

 

[Ankerson]

The only thing holding me back thus far is the fact that I know nothing about the VG-1 stainless steel. I don't know the HRC, toughness, or corrosion resistance(would hate for it to rust in my pants because I haven't used it).

VG-1 is similar to V-10 really from what I have read and experienced.

I own a few VG-1 blades and they hold an edge a long time when used and you really don't have to worry much about them rusting either.

 

[kungfucowboy]

first i want agree you brain is your best tool

and a folder is a crap sd weapon

Handle Grip-
this is important in that you want a handle that won't slip or let you ride up with a stab

Blade Geometry-
as long as it has a point or an edge or both it'll work

Edge Detail-
I really doubt it matters, just keep it sharp

Lock-
any well made lock will be fine a fixed bade is obviously best

Steel-
As long as it's not insanley brittle who cares. it's not like it has to hold an edge that long.

Opening Mechanism-
fixed, baring that what ever you personally can open fastest.


put some more thought into where you are going to carry it, and how you are goingto draw it and open it in a reasonale amount of time.

this is where i gave up, if it's iwb, in a pocket or cliped on my belt a folder was way too slow to deploy. If it was cliped to my pocket it was a llittle better but still too slow for me to draw and unfold with the added problem that it was hard to grab anything in that pocket and i would sometimes drop or loose knives like that.

back when i was in the usa even my slow self could draw a pistol from an iwb holster and fire an aimed shot in less time than i could pull out a folder deploy it and have it in a secure grip let alone start defensie movements. your experince may be different than mine but try it to see.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

For all those who can't carry a firearm - sorry. Your experience is a geographically limited one in the US - if you are responding from here. CCW is the preferred choice among the experienced, knowledgeable, and professionally qualified. They may carry a utility knife as backup, but not as a primary weapon.

If you are an unpaid member here, there is no Search. What is interesting to note is that a lot of new members do come in with a preconcieved notion that a knife is, and can be argued, a reasonable self defense weapon. Others chime in about the special restrictions in there locale that force the choice. Again, not a majority situation in the US, and not the solution.

The reason the question keeps popping up is precisely who it comes from - the inexperienced, the uneducated, those lacking professional skills, or the localized inability to get a concealed firearm permit.

Sure, there are lots of us who like to EDC a nice knife that could be placed in the huge umbrella category of tactical - we also recognize and persist in telling anyone who will listen that choosing a knife for SD is a third rate solution.

So, I'd like to add, why does "everybody" keep ignoring the advice?

It doesn't meet the fantasy needs of the OP's. They still have a lot to learn.

Sorry doesn't cut it. You seem to be ignoring any advice for those who can't CCW/firearm and by the way this thread is about knives.
So what is your solution for defending without a gun? Fromwhat you have said I'll save you the typing, -you don't have one ....or am I supposed to think you are a BJJ black belt? what? And don't say run away, it doesn't always work,.....

Let's say you are being assaulted and you can't CCW/firearm, what now? I doubt you will reply because you DONT know what now. Now that I have taken your option of gun away you are a fish out of water, a bird who has flown too high where the air is very thin....what now tirod?
I know what I would do but that's not what I am posting about, I want to know what you would do. I have the experience and methodology. I would be fine, but I doubt you would be. The 2 times I used a knife for SD, multiple attackers each time, I was not fantasizing. You sound like you think you are God, sheesh! Probably an A/LEO, I'll let everyone guess what the A stands for.




Edit: What you should do, if you want to contribute to this forum in a positive way is to edit out the insults from your post, and re-phrase the information in a respectful manner, I couldn't agree more there are some young bucks out there who need information and positive, informed, suggestions.

You don't 'know' me, and probably could care less [I see that in your personality] but I have nothing but respect for someone who corrects his mistakes, to me that is the biggest shadow in the bunch.

 

[SIFU1A]

FWIW the spydie scorpius would be the last thing i would want as far as a SD knife goes.

some good ones imho are the spyderco ti ATR, the emerson CQC12, '13, '8 & '7, and the crawford kasper & perfigo customs.

 

[Noctis3880]

The Spyderco ATR seems like an extremely lightweight, yet heavy-duty, folder. Though I have some concerns on the gripping ability without handle scales.

I'm personally having another look at the Civilian because of it's relatively easy use for those without much training in knife play. Though the down curved tip would make it seem extremely prone to snapping off. It seems to be designed for extreme close combat, with particular emphasis on swinging the knife at your target, and then pulling the knife towards you. However, the warning against using it as a utility knife makes me believe that it was designed as a single-use weapon, which is hardly worth the price tag, and is a serious consideration if facing multiple attackers.

The serrations simply seem to inflict unnecessary damage. I believe that any cut that's even a quarter of an inch deep will cause considerable pain and distraction, enough to either run away or cripple your opponent. Considering that a hair popping edge can cut my finger merely by grazing it with slight pressure, I believe a scalpel-like edge is more than capable of inflicting that level of injury with just a light swing.

Again, I realize that a knife will really only be an option either when you have the element of surprise(in which case, it would not be self-defense, but eliminating a threat to others), or you're either better armed or better trained than your attacker.

 

[mdauben]

For all those who can't carry a firearm - sorry. Your experience is a geographically limited one in the US - if you are responding from here.

Geographically limited? Perhaps, but I know of at least three states were it is impossible, or practically impossible, to get a CCW; California, Illinois, and New York (there may be more I am not personally aware of). That may be only three out of fifty states, but it still represents millions of citizens. So, should we just dismiss the need and circumstances of all those people, just becuase they are in the "minority"? I certainly see discussion of non-firearms carry options a perfectly legitimate topic for question and discussion on the forum.

The reason the question keeps popping up is precisely who it comes from - the inexperienced, the uneducated, those lacking professional skills, or the localized inability to get a concealed firearm permit.

Inexperienced, yes, but what does education and "professional skills" (whatever the heck that is) have to do with the topic at hand, other than to serve as gratuitous insults? Newbies are by definition inexperienced and certainly one of the best functions of on-line communities like this it to inform and educate newcomers. Why do some "old timers" seem to resent that so much?

we also recognize and persist in telling anyone who will listen that choosing a knife for SD is a third rate solution.

There is a difference between relating the limitations of a knife for SD and simply dismissing the question out of hand as one you don't care to see asked.

 

[molly's survival]

Emerson CQC-7w best by far the wave is faster than an auto, it's like pulling a fixed blade from your pocket. handle is great in all grips and the chisel grind tanto is made to go through a car hood!

 

[Noctis3880]

That tanto chisel grind seems to be more for stabbing than anything. I'm more of a slicer myself, though I suppose the extra wide blade also helps in that regard, with the tanto acting like a second tip.

Though I prefer a tip-up carry for longer reach and control rather than the increased power of tip-down. But I suppose tip-down with wave opening is about as fast as you can get.

Personally, I'm leaning more towards the Cold Steel Talwar model because of the curved tip and pistol grip. It simply seems more like my style and what I'm comfortable with. The big problem is the price tag($270-$300).

I'm not sure I want to pay an extra $100 compared to the Emerson CQC-7W for a more accommodating blade and handle design. Or an extra $200 compared to the Scimitar for a tiny bit of protruding steel that catches my pocket seam.

Still, a price can't be put on your life, and the cost is about a week's pay for me. Though the pragmatist in me is preparing to swing a cactus in my face(now there's an idea for a weapon) for even considering spending over $270 for something I'll probably only use just once in my life(as I'm pretty sure if I ever DO end up using it, in self-defense or as a deterrent, the police aren't going to let me keep it).

The handle seems a bit thick, and I'm worried that the protruding steel ball at the end of the handle will clue an attacker in on the fact that I have a knife clipped to my pocket. I typically have a large enough shirt so that it covers my pocket(which would also slow down deployment slightly, as I have to lift my shirt up to get at the handle), but a couple of my pants might have the pockets riding low enough for it to show. The clip also doesn't seem to be reversible for the quicker tip-down carry.

 

[SIFU1A]

The Spyderco ATR seems like an extremely lightweight, yet heavy-duty, folder. Though I have some concerns on the gripping ability without handle scales.

I'm personally having another look at the Civilian because of it's relatively easy use for those without much training in knife play. Though the down curved tip would make it seem extremely prone to snapping off. It seems to be designed for extreme close combat, with particular emphasis on swinging the knife at your target, and then pulling the knife towards you. However, the warning against using it as a utility knife makes me believe that it was designed as a single-use weapon, which is hardly worth the price tag, and is a serious consideration if facing multiple attackers.

The serrations simply seem to inflict unnecessary damage. I believe that any cut that's even a quarter of an inch deep will cause considerable pain and distraction, enough to either run away or cripple your opponent. Considering that a hair popping edge can cut my finger merely by grazing it with slight pressure, I believe a scalpel-like edge is more than capable of inflicting that level of injury with just a light swing.

Again, I realize that a knife will really only be an option either when you have the element of surprise(in which case, it would not be self-defense, but eliminating a threat to others), or you're either better armed or better trained than your attacker.

imho a well designed grip is what helps ya hold it not G10/etc, something like a crawford perfigo or kasper grips as well as most anything and they are ti handled, same as the ATR, imho some of the best grips on productions are emersons, like the CQC13, anyway if the grips designed right holding onto the things not a problem, G10 or not, and if its not designed right, G10 wont help much if any.

civilians are ok but are imho too one dimensional with little or no stabbing ability, i have had a couple and never was that crazy about them, serrations wont cut any better/deeper than a well sharpened PE either, imho serrations dont help a SD knife at all, they arent a con but arent really any kinda pro, not as far as cutting ability. look at all the custom SD knives, like the perfigo, kasper, the emerson '13, '8, '6, etc, all plain edge, and these are designed from the get-go as SD folders, SE on customs is not a common thing if the 'smiths thought it offered a advantage they would jump right on making them with SE vs PE, not the case.

 

[Noctis3880]

imho a well designed grip is what helps ya hold it not G10/etc, something like a crawford perfigo or kasper grips as well as most anything and they are ti handled, same as the ATR, imho some of the best grips on productions are emersons, like the CQC13, anyway if the grips designed right holding onto the things not a problem, G10 or not, and if its not designed right, G10 wont help much if any.

civilians are ok but are imho too one dimensional with little or no stabbing ability, i have had a couple and never was that crazy about them, serrations wont cut any better/deeper than a well sharpened PE either, imho serrations dont help a SD knife at all, they arent a con but arent really any kinda pro, not as far as cutting ability. look at all the custom SD knives, like the perfigo, kasper, the emerson '13, '8, '6, etc, all plain edge, and these are designed from the get-go as SD folders, SE on customs is not a common thing if the 'smiths thought it offered a advantage they would jump right on making them with SE vs PE, not the case.

True. I've found that the G10 scales will "catch" my pants between the clip and the handle, making it more of a chore to pull out the knife. I think my Shallot actually deploys faster than my Endura because of it. The recurve blade also seems to slightly resemble a Tanto, though I'm not about to shove it through a car door.

Still, I think I'm leaning more towards the Talwar because of its sword-grip. It also seems pretty lethal in a more subtle way. Looking at the blade shape, it's hard to imagine it has any other purpose other than to kill. Especially if anyone saw that German chick from Die Hard with a Vengeance slice a guy's neck with a similarly shaped blade held tip-down.