Best self-defense folder?

Noctis3880 said:
Still, I think I'm leaning more towards the Talwar because of its sword-grip. It also seems pretty lethal in a more subtle way. Looking at the blade shape, it's hard to imagine it has any other purpose other than to kill. Especially if anyone saw that German chick from Die Hard with a Vengeance slice a guy's neck with a similarly shaped blade held tip-down.
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That is a mean knife. :thumbup:
 
Ryou said:
Sorry doesn't cut it. You seem to be ignoring any advice for those who can't CCW/firearm and by the way this thread is about knives.
So what is your solution for defending without a gun? Fromwhat you have said I'll save you the typing, -you don't have one ....or am I supposed to think you are a BJJ black belt? what? And don't say run away, it doesn't always work,.....

Let's say you are being assaulted and you can't CCW/firearm, what now? I doubt you will reply because you DONT know what now. Now that I have taken your option of gun away you are a fish out of water, a bird who has flown too high where the air is very thin....what now tirod?
I know what I would do but that's not what I am posting about, I want to know what you would do. I have the experience and methodology. I would be fine, but I doubt you would be. The 2 times I used a knife for SD, multiple attackers each time, I was not fantasizing. You sound like you think you are God, sheesh! Probably an A/LEO, I'll let everyone guess what the A stands for.




Edit: What you should do, if you want to contribute to this forum in a positive way is to edit out the insults from your post, and re-phrase the information in a respectful manner, I couldn't agree more there are some young bucks out there who need information and positive, informed, suggestions.

You don't 'know' me, and probably could care less [I see that in your personality] but I have nothing but respect for someone who corrects his mistakes, to me that is the biggest shadow in the bunch.
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There are a few who can leave the mean streets they live on - and a few who won't take the advice to move out - which is what reasonable people attempt to do when confronted with continuous danger in their lives. Whether actual or percieved, they move to a less dangerous location.

Some refuse to do so and accept the risk. They tolerate it and attempt to manage it. If anything, the posts in this thread suggest 1) take martial arts training and become more capable 2) learn to be aware of your surroundings and avoid the conflict to begin with 3) GET A FIREARM.

I have a CCW license because I live in a state that offers it. If someone lives where it's legally denied, work to correct both the political situation and your personal one. I am very aware that many who live in one of the few "denial" states still do. If it's political largesse, get involved instead of continuing to be a victim.

This is where some resort to "What can I carry as a weapon for Self Defense?" and consider the knife. Buying a weapon for self defense means understanding it's limitations. For CCW, you often can't display it in a threatening manner, must accept that others will get to bully you because you have no legal grounds to escalate, and suck it up because you don't want to lose the privilege.

It's the same with a knife. Pull it at the wrong time, you escalate the situation. You are now the aggressor and liable.

Now the question is - what are you doing to provoke clues that you could be a helpless victim - or at least one easily overcome? Solve those indicators, and quit sending victim signals. Don't look like one, don't be there, don't go there. My posts on the subject - given some research - will show I've said that for years here.

But the gang is on you, despite the effort on your part?

Is there anything in your immediate surroundings that can be used as a weapon? The second most used weapon in DOJ statistics is "Anything Else," and the list is long. Are you committed to using whatever to stop the attack - rock, piece of wood, an off balance opponent's arm, whatever? If you don't have bare hand skills to attack, you don't have the basis to build edged weapons use. Don't take my word for it, ask the trainers who teach it. If I have heard correctly, it's two years of barehand training before an Escrima instructor even hands you a training blade.

Are you in training? If a poster recognizes the need to improve their self defense, the answer is to improve their SKILLS, not pick a third rate weapon and continue living the same mistakes.

Self Defense is not the place for "Why can't we all just get along?" The trainers I had in the military and in civilian life make every effort to point out where our thinking goes wrong, because that's the major weakness to address. Tools and Training are just that - what you do and use after you understand what you're doing wrong. If the process of pointing out mistakes in world view concepts and perceptions in self defense hurt someone's feelings, then the cause is the reader's fault. What was there to get offended about unless it exists? I have no way of knowing - it's purely a very public and revealing acknowledgement on the part of the those who take it that way.

Reacting by limiting the conversation to the rare gang assault and insisting on a pat "Whatch gonna do?" answer ignores so much of what people ARE doing to avoid the conflict - and why is that still being ignored? It IS the correct answer. Not what knife to use.

Don't put yourself in harm's way, you don't get assaulted. Ignore the lessons, well, just hang a fresh meat sign on your chest already. You're not thinking about it, and Darwin's law will correct the situation, unfortunately.
 
tirod3 said:
Don't put yourself in harm's way, you don't get assaulted. Ignore the lessons, well, just hang a fresh meat sign on your chest already. You're not thinking about it, and Darwin's law will correct the situation, unfortunately.
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That is the best piece of advise really. ;)

Also it's true that if you don't look like a victim you usually won't get attacked either.

I usually don't have had any problems because I don't look and dress like a victim, I am a country boy and EX Military so I have always dressed that way. The thing is that most of the attackers KNOW just by the way I dress and carry myself that I won't be an easy mark. The would be attackers are not stupid for the most part.

Other words if you dress like a pansy (Like a lot of people do these days) and carry yourself like a wild eyed liberal expect to have problems if you happen to walk down the wrong street. You might as well put a sign on your forehead that says come and get me I am an easy mark.

Also CONTROL YOUR GIRLFRIEND, DATE, OR WIFE when you are out, the wrong actions by a female at the wrong time can get you killed. ;)

You might think you are being macho, but what you are doing is setting youself up to be hurt or killed. I have seen this so many times in my life I can't count them, STUPID, STUPID idiots end up in the hurt locker. It doesn't look so macho getting beat half to death, gutted, shot or in jail playing with Bubba and his 15 buddies.
 
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"don't put yourself in harms' way, you don't get assaulted" is patently untrue.

"if you are not making any enemies, what are you doing?"
 
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MikeC said:
I posted to try and enlightened people about whats out there, I ran real hard from my late teens until my late 20's and stayed on the fringe until about 30. What amazed me was the people I met that you would have thought were clean as a whistle and were involed in all kinds of crap up their eye balls and the overall goings on in general. At the time I enjoyed it and lived that lifestyle to the fullest, now I regret it, have health problems because of it and am cynical in general. Howver, I'm not naive about whats going on in very large volume throughout our society in general. If most people knew the nature and scope of what was reallly going on all around them they probably wouldn't leave their house.
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+1 for what MikeC is saying..

Expect the Unexpected...and watch your 6. Even if you have a CCW and carrying a gun... There is always the ambush.

If you must carry a knife.. carry a knife that you know well and can do multiple tasks well. Also make sure you can put the Kungfu Grip on that handle.
 
Ryou said:
"don't put yourself in harms' way, you don't get assaulted" is patently untrue.

"if you are not making any enemies, what are you doing?"
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There are exceptions, but that's not really the norm though.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Looking at the blade shape, it's hard to imagine it has any other purpose other than to kill. Especially if anyone saw that German chick from Die Hard with a Vengeance slice a guy's neck with a similarly shaped blade held tip-down.
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i think you watch too many hollywood movies.
 
I did not read every post in this thread, so my apologies if this is redundant. Setting aside whether you're trained with using a knife or not, let's just say you are & I'll answer the question.

I think the quickest in the hand folder is the Spyderco P'Kal. However, a waved Endura, carrying it in your pocket with the wave forward, is a close 2nd. Having said that, my favorite folder for SD is my waved Yojimbo (& I carry it with the wave forward in my pocket).

I also carry a HAK, on my weak side, & EDC 1-2 handguns. I usually use a slip-joint if I'm around people & need to do "normal" cutting tasks.

IIRC, "Mercop" wrote an interesting post about tests he conducted with members of his class. In a nutshell, he found that unskilled people (& even skilled) should use the folder in a standard grip with the blade-tip forward & the edge upward. The cuts that his pupils inflicted were usually glancing when the knife was held in the "normal" (Edge down) fashion. Having the edge up enabled the person to get better cuts/stabs into the person, especially cuts into the neck & groin area. That's one of the reasons for using a wave forward in the pocket. The other reason is that in "force on force" drills, it's usually harder to draw your knife up & backward out of your pocket (Which you need to do with a reg. waved folder) vs drawing your folder up & forward (Wave forward).

All arguments aside as to whether you should defend yourself with a knife, if you can carry one, a FB should be your 1st choice. It's quicker into action & more importantly, it's stronger. Personally, as a last ditch weapon, I like small FBs with a finger hole in them for retention (HAK, Emerson La Griffe, Spyderco Swick/SPOT, etc).

Good luck with whatever you get.
 
I've purchased the Cold Steel Talwar knife. However, just 24 hours later I've stumbled onto a site that CLEARLY details why the entire concept of knives in self-defense is just "epic fail", for a lack of better words.

I'll share the details in a separate thread. Though it cost me $300, at least the Talwar is visually appealing enough to make the rank of "safe queen".
 
I have not read all the posts, but OP, if you are well trained then a 3.5 inch blade will get the job done. I am fairly heavy into FMAs and train my blade at least 3 times a week.

I practice getting the knife out and ready everyday.

I have 2 Ontarios, a Kershaw, Buck black label and a spyderco Police.

Yes, the Spyderco has a longer (4.5 inch) blade, but the difference in a real fight is skill.

The Ontarios are tanks with stunning craftsmanship, but also very thick.

I tried a fixed blade, but there are many hassles. A folder is really the only option for me. I have a chl, but it is a PITA getting my set up going.

The Beauty of a folder is it is just grab and go.

Get a folder that is comfortable and train with it.
 
Heck, no apologies. Great threads should never die.
I'd recommend this beauty above all my other folders (maybe except the Talwar and Hold Out) if you're serious about defending your life with a blade.

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Lightweight, strong, sharp, pointy and fast. 6 in. of pure slicing power.
Got it recently from a fellow forumite :)
 
It is more the man than the knife. You need specific training in how to handle a knife.
Personally, an AK with a FOLDING stock would work better.
 
Sonnydaze said:
It is more the man than the knife. You need specific training in how to handle a knife.
Personally, an AK with a FOLDING stock would work better.
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I hear things like this a great deal, but training with a gun takes much more time and dedication than knife training. Now, guns are much better weapons, but there's also the fact that once things like basic melee are committed to muscle memory they're very easy to pick back up extremely fast while shooting requires fairly constant training or you'll loose accuracy pretty quickly.
 
Aaaand in my country guns are a no-no to civilians. These are my last-ditch tools, and only to be used when my life really depends on it, if that ever happens. I have other tools for EDC and utility.

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Not everybody can have a handgun, so I never considered the AK or an AR15, sorry.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I hear things like this a great deal, but training with a gun takes much more time and dedication than knife training. Now, guns are much better weapons, but there's also the fact that once things like basic melee are committed to muscle memory they're very easy to pick back up extremely fast while shooting requires fairly constant training or you'll loose accuracy pretty quickly.
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Training with a gun is important, but shooting a gun at point blank doesn't require near the training as knife fighting. I want to articulate as best as I can without downgrading the importance of maintaining and training with a gun. Anyway it takes a lot more training to prepare for hand to hand and a knife fight even more.All things being equal, the winner of a knife fight is often the one who dies slowest.
You use a gun at a distance, if your within 15 ft and your mentally prepared, you won't miss. Going at it with a knife, unless you have someone you need to protect, turn and run, make lots of screaming sounds to hopefully attract law enforcement. The screaming might not seem dignified, there's no dignity in dying.
 
bt93 said:
Training with a gun is important, but shooting a gun at point blank doesn't require near the training as knife fighting. I want to articulate as best as I can without downgrading the importance of maintaining and training with a gun. Anyway it takes a lot more training to prepare for hand to hand and a knife fight even more.All things being equal, the winner of a knife fight is often the one who dies slowest.
You use a gun at a distance, if your within 15 ft and your mentally prepared, you won't miss. Going at it with a knife, unless you have someone you need to protect, turn and run, make lots of screaming sounds to hopefully attract law enforcement. The screaming might not seem dignified, there's no dignity in dying.
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Successfully shooting someone at point blank range, grappling range, requires either dumb luck or tremendous training and skill. That's why you frequently see self-inflicted gunshot wounds in that type of confrontation. Guns just aren't easy at any range. Now, give a 9-year-old a sharpie and tell them to swing it at you as fast and as much as they can. Now you try not to get hit, it's fine to restrain them or take the marker away. I can pretty much promise you're going to have a crapload of marker on you. No training required.

Simple biology, adrenaline kills your fine motor skills, the same skills it takes to fire a gun. It aids gross motor, though, the kind you use to swing a knife. You can certainly overcome that with training, but it takes much more than people think and a kind of training that very few people do.
 
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