Best Sharpening System for under $100

Originally posted by mattd
Pendentive, Thank you for the advise.

You're welcome.

Originally posted by mattd
I have read all the faqs that I could find on this site and was wondering about the steel you buy. How the heck do you make sense of it all, hardness, toughness, heated right... and once you figure all this out, what is the best way to go about buying the exact knife that you think you need.

There is no "one knife" to suit all your needs. Believe me, you'll spend plenty of time trying to explain that one to your g/f, wife, etc. :eek:

So it comes down to a question of priorities. You have to ask yourself what features are most important to you, and to the task at hand.

There is a lot of hype out there and you have to be able to cut through it all.

I think that the pursuit of the answer to your question is the energy that drives all of bladeforums...


We're all in this together...




Re: convex edge, etc.

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Truly the best sharpening system is the one that is nearest at hand, and makes the most sense to you. Get several and try them out until you find what works best for your tasks. Hook up with guys that have similar cutting interests and learn to do what they do. That's what led me to the 1x42 belt sander method and to convex edges. It fits what I do and how I like to work.
 
A little more on belt sanders...

As Pendentive said, sharpening is geometry and polish. Wanna slice soft materials like meat? A thin bevel that is semi-polished but with some teeth is awesome. Wanna carve wood? A thin bevelis good, though maybe a bit thicker than a meat knife, since the material youa re cutting is harder. Also, you want a very high polish, which will push cut right through the wood fibers. Need somethign to hack and chop through God knows what? Maybe go with a thicker edge bevel, so that it will stand up tot he rough stuff. See, simple! :)

One of the more important factors in sharpening I think is control. You want to be able to set even bevels, not damage the knife, get an even polish, etc. The sharpmaker allows a person to easily hold a 15 or 20 degree angle, maybe with a bit of variation which won't matter much. The Edge pro offers greater control, since the knife is stable and the stone is stable. WHen using a sharpenign stone (free hand sharpening), you have to teach yourself to hold an angle steady on BOTH sides of the knife, which does take practice. A belt sander is no different in this regard. I liek to think fo mine as a fast file, or in the case of sharpening, a stone that moves itself. You still have to choose the angle you want, hold it consistently, and do so for both sides fo your knife. With a belt sander, you have to worry about heat build-up too. But those caveats aside, I think a belt sander offers a lot for folks, as long as oen is willing to put in the time to learn to use a sander. You have to move fast, because staying put in one place for any length of time will lead to problems. This is especially improtant for heat build-up. But you know, anyone can learn. They don't use Edge Pros and Sharpmakers in the knife factories! Most custom guys sharpen on their grinders too.

A 1x30 is a fine machine for sharpening too. You can usually get new belts anywhere, though maybe only in the rougher grits. No matter, a belt sander (called a grinder when used on steel)belt will last a long time if just used for sharpening. Order 2 belts in 220, 400, 600 and 800 grit from a knife maker's supply place and you're set for years probably. With a belt sander, you can sharpen on the platen to get flat bevels, or sharpen above the platen to get a slight convex edge, or remove the platen to get a better convex edge. As Pendentive knows, a convex edge is EASY to put on a blade, and works very well! The key is a light touch, smooth passes, and dunking the blade in water after a pass or 2. Slap on a 220 grit belt, make 1 or 2 passes on one side, and I bet a burr will pop up. Do the same on the other side (be dunkign every 1 or 2 passes!). Then swith belts and go as smooth as you want. From there, strop! Or, get a leather belt and stropping compound, whatever you want. I use my grinder for sharpening axes, hatchets, lawnmower blades, a lot of kitchen knives, the knives I make, etc. For good practice, go to yard sales or thrift stores and buy a bunch of cheap knives of different sizes. If they have those ridiculous "never need sharpening" scalloped tearing teeth on them, those are fine too! Grind 'em off :) I have done that lots of times. Get long blades, medium length ones, and a few small ones too, paring knife size. Gee, paring knives are kinda like fodler size eh! Practice on those and you can tackle your folders.

With a belt sander too, you can easily make a few extra bucks sharpening knives for folks. I like my grinder for this, because most non-knife folks don't care for their knives, so you always get their knvies with chips in them, and/or very thick bevels. No problem! Put on the 220 grit belt, and 1-2 minutes per knife you have 'em all at a 220 grit finish. Switch belts if you want. A quick strop, and done. You can do 10 knives in under half an hour. Ask for $2 a knife. You can have that little Delta 1x30 paid off, with the extra belts and practice knives, in an hour and a half maybe. Then you can sharpen up your lawnmower blade and cut the lawn easily. Oh, clean up the bevels ona shovel and watch 'em cut through earth easily!

And don't get me started on modifying/makign knives! Try making new scales for your knives with a sharpmaker! I can with my "knife sharpener" :)


With that advertisement over, I must say that I would love an Edge Pro myself. Something portable that gives you control and options liek the Edge Pro does woild be handy to have. Also, I'd liek oen for "experiments". Take a knife to 40 degrees included and test. 35 and test, 30 and test, etc. You can really play with degrees and finishes with the Edge pro in a very controlled manner.

Oh hey, I just remembered something! A grinder sure does a great job on recurves, like on Pendentive's khukuris! a 1" wide belt follows the curves nicely.
 
Bought a Gatco sharpening kit from a BF member a couple of years ago for $25. It consists of 4 diamond hones and a combination clamp-jig and I've goten great results-the jig makes getting the proper angle a real no brainer.
 
Crayola,
your awsome! Thank you very much for puting so much time into helping me out. The members of this forum have truly impressed me by their knowledge and love for something I ONCE thought was just a tool.

I have made some moves since my last post. I bought a basic lansky system and an extra corse hone. The Lansky because I don't have much money and I wanted a system NOW. I found a store that had one. I also wanted to start off simple and if I liked it I would move on to some of the other ideas mentioned when I get the money and understanding of this art. The recomended book should come in the mail early next week. I have taken what I have learned in this thread and the faqs provided from this site to start my adventure in sharpening. I have sharpened one knife a night for the past four nights. A large kitchen knife, a leatherman, My nine inch Buck "pig sticken" knife, and a fillet knife last night. My fillet knife was my best work of them all I thought. A friend came over last night when I was finshing up and asked to see my knife. I let him see it and he said it was sharp accept for the very end. He was right, I had messed up somehow, but that didn't bother me any because I know I will be a good knife sharpener in time. What did bother me was his knife was way sharper than mine and he uses three stones that are on a triangle thing that sits in a tub of oil. I don't know what it is called. He showed me his Case trapper. I asked him how he got his so sharp and he didn't tell me anything I didn't already know. All I know is next time he comes over, I want my knife sharper than his becasue he has a very sharp one.

I put on a BBQ at work and was being asked about how I got my knives so sharp. I know that they could be sharper but I told them that it was my one of my hobbies. My co-workers now want me to sharpen their knives for them, I told them that I would like to try and pay off my knife sharpening supplies and that I could do it for 2.00 a piece and if they didn't like my work they didn't have to pay. They don't care about their knives that much or they would do it themselves so I don't think it will hurt much if I start a little side job.

I still want to get good at using my Lansky, but a faster system might not be a bad idea. I am thinking of using the lansky to get started and when I have some more money get a sander. I understand the grit information, heating, and practicing on lesser knives first but I just can't picture what the sander looks like. Is it a belt sander? Do you turn it upside down? What direction does the paper go? I know these questions probably sound really stupid but I just can't picture how it all works.

Thanks again for everyone's generousity!
 
Originally posted by godot
Bought a Gatco sharpening kit from a BF member a couple of years ago for $25. It consists of 4 diamond hones and a combination clamp-jig and I've goten great results-the jig makes getting the proper angle a real no brainer.

Thanks, anyone else know anything about the GATCO sharpeners that I was talking about? I like the fact that it makes getting the correct angle easy. I think that this is probably the first sharpener that I'll try. If I really get into the whole knife thing then I may someday get the Apex system or something.
 
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That's a belt sander above, they're sold at www.leevalley.com , and you can find similar grinders at Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. etc.

Glad to hear you're having success so soon! It took me years to get even mediocre edges freehand, you should be proud. See my post in Garageboys recent sharpening thread for a tip on how to make a really cheap strop. That could help you out-sharpen your friend. :cool:
 
agreed, RR.

As stated before, sharpening is a 2 step process: grind the edge and polish it.

Your friend has probably just polished his more. You need to spend some time with your finest stone and then a strop.

Get one at www.leevalley.com - under the sharpening area. Get the strop and the compound. Then strop it at least 100 times per side (10 at a time). Start pressing rather firmly and then lighten up more and more after you pass 50. Just keep going until you think your arm is going to fall off. It'll be a great first-timer experience because you'll be darned sure to never do it for that long again! :D That will give you "the eye"...:eek:

Stropping is fine polishing and if you take care of your knife, you will only ever need to strop it on a regular basis - taking it to the stone only for "injuries" to the blade.
 
Originally posted by berettaman12000
The sharpmakeer is a good sharpener for knives that don't need profiling. I would not want to reprofile any blade steel with a Sharpmaker.

I can vouch for that! In fact, I recently switched from a Lansky system to the Sharpmaker. My favorite kitchen knife (8in Henckels 4 star chefs knife) needed a bit of sharpening, so I broke out the Sharpmaker. I figured it should be easy, as I always used the 20 deg angle on the Lansky, so it should be the same as the Sharpmaker, right? Well, guess what? It seems that 20 Lansky deg X 2 is not equal to 40 Sypderco deg!

So, I resolved to reprofile... After all, Henckel uses a pretty soft steel, so this shouldn't be too hard right? Well, it seems that when people say reprofiling can take a while, they mean that reprofiling can take a long long while!!! I needed between 500-700 strokes per side to get to the edge... Wow, almost 1 hour of sharpening!

All in all, I can't say I'm disappointed, because the knife can now slice a tomato like you wouldn't believe!!! I'm sure that it will now be easy to maintain (my Spyderco knives are quite easy to resharpen), but be aware that the reprofiling is quite an experience!!!

Guy
 
I always recommend the Sharpmaker for people just starting out or who don't have the time for other methodes, it's low cost x results = great sharpner.

That Gatco system is a cheaper made version of Lansky from what I have seen of them and that price you all are quoting on them is twice what Wal-Mart sells them for, last time I looked they were $14.95 at Wal-mart although I would buy a Lnasky instead because it's easy to get replacement rods for, and there are many excessories such as dimond stones for the Lansky plus it's just made better.
 
Originally posted by NGK-Webmaster
I always recommend the Sharpmaker for people just starting out or who don't have the time for other methodes, it's low cost x results = great sharpner.

That Gatco system is a cheaper made version of Lansky from what I have seen of them and that price you all are quoting on them is twice what Wal-Mart sells them for, last time I looked they were $14.95 at Wal-mart although I would buy a Lnasky instead because it's easy to get replacement rods for, and there are many excessories such as dimond stones for the Lansky plus it's just made better.

So, how is the GATCO cheaper than the Lansky? It seems to me that they are pretty much the exact same thing? I've also seen the diamond stones available for the GATCO too. I checked Walmart just yesterday to see what they had for sharpeners and didn't find the GATCO system, maybe I was just looking in the wrong place. Thanks for the information!
 
Well,
I have two strops and the compound, the seraded and extra course hones and the Razor edge book. I have a bunch of very sharp knives at my house now and have friends volunteering their knives to be practiced on. One friend gave me three kitchen knives that have been sharpened by soemthing nasty. It looked like he drove down the highway, opened the door and drug his knives down the road to sharpen them. I have my work cut out for me but I thought I would give everyone an update on the sharpening journey.
 
I would like to know where the best place to buy 200-800 grit 1" x 30" sanding belts. I have looked at many sites for knife making and haven't found any. I thought I would come to the pros again!
 
(optional) Super coarse alumina oxide stone. Each crystal of grit is about the size of rock salt on soft pretzels. Weighs about 30 pounds- it was salvaged from an old silage chopper. free. (though a new replacement stone was a couple hundred bucks) Use judiciously for repairs. In less than a minute it can remove 1/4" of steel from your blade.

Coarse alumina oxide stone (maybe about 180 grit), and combo med. alumina oxide (oh, guessing around 300 grit) $6 at a flea market. Perfect for quick sharpening of heavy use knives, and a good, rough, agressive working edge.

Diamond stone from Wal-mart. $7 (2200 grit- worn down from sharpening literally a few thousand times on it) Great for polishing very hard/high alloy steels, and removing burrs.

Identical new stone. $7.

(optional) various other diamond stones $20.

Unglazed Ceramic bathroom tile, polished to a fine surface with another piece of ceramic tile. free. Also bought some ceramic sticks, and they're easier to hold, but don't work any better.

Leather razor strop. $20 at an antique store, though a wide, fine leather belt would probably do.

Still have $30 left over for a hard wheel bench grinder, for really heavy sharpening.

The knowledge to quickly sharpen a blade for different situations, and go well beyond hair-splitting sharpness. priceless.
 
Originally posted by mattd
I would like to know where the best place to buy 200-800 grit 1" x 30" sanding belts. I have looked at many sites for knife making and haven't found any. I thought I would come to the pros again!

Higher grits in 1x30 are a little tricky to find. Do a search for sander and belts here on bladeforums. I posted a number of links recently but can't remember where...:confused: :p

Start with Discount Abrasives - they're sure to have what you need.

http://www.geocities.com/discount_abrasives/index.html

Just email Kim and ask for the highest grit 1x30 they carry.

discount_abrasives@yahoo.com


Best of luck with all your sharpening! Keep us posted!

Dan

Dan
 
Pendentive,
thanks again for direction. I thought I would say something good about the Razor Edge Book of Sharpening. It is a solid, very informative, and easy to read book on edges. I read in two sittings which is very rare for me.
I would also like to update everyone on my friends very sharp knife. He came over last night and he said that I was ruining my hones because I wasn't using any oil. I politely disagreed and told him the arguments of both sides. He had no idea. I showed him some knives that I was sharpening for my parents and he felt he needed to show off how sharp his knife is again. I was hoping he would do that because I thought my knives were sharper. His edge tip was dramatically, yes, it was somewhat sharp, but bent. I pointed this out so that he would understand that I wasn't criticizing but did see a major flaw. It stung him a bit but he asked me to sharpen his knife. I thought messing with the relief might piss him off so I used the fine grit hone and strops for a couple minutes and it came out great. I am looking forward to getting home so I can work on my edges. I'm off to find sand paper.
 
:D :D :D


I remember the first time I sharpened a knife for somebody else - at their request...

This was long before I had the tools and info I have now, and it was quite a rush. I sent them home with it fully sharpened and the very next time I saw them they couldn't stop going on and on and on about it...:rolleyes:

Anyway, that was quite a confidence booster.

Nowadays, it's just like "Ok, I'll do it" and I just giggle when I get the phone call the next day..."Oh my ____..." :D


I used to get upset when I'd see people misuse the knife I sharpened for them and either dull it, or cut themselves with it. Now, I just laugh because for most regular folks, it's quite an eye-opener to have something that sharp and eventually they warm up to the idea...and I'll never argue against return business. :D


You're doin' great, Matt. Keep up the good work!

Dan
 
I really wish I had bought a system just once. It would have been an Edge Pro. Instead I'm on my third and not done yet. I have a DMT rig and it is ok, the diamonds are great. I think the sharpmaker is vastly overpriced for a couple of med grit ceramic rods drilled into a block.
 
I am now overloaded with knives to sharpen.:) I will be getting 1 x 30 vert. grinder now that I know where to get belts and how much they are going to cost. Is there a need or way to make an angle guide or is it pretty easy to obtain a consistant/correct angles? I also have a friend who really likes knives but never uses them. They are more for show. He is getty married next year and I would like to build him a knife and get it engraved. I'm not sure but I think I will need a grinder to do this? Which leads me to my next question, what are the best books and videos to help start me off? This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question but the information I have recieved here has been so good. If you were to start making knives, how would you start? What do you guys think?
 
I got a Delica Lightweight less than a month ago and started searching for sharpeners. After reading this thread, im still unsure to get the Sharpmaker or a belt sander with a budget around $50. I dont mind learning the correct process with a belt sander but I dont see myself using it that often to teach myself how to use it correctly. The only two knives I have are the Delica and the one on my Wave which has some chips in it. Delica is still pretty sharp but has lost most of its paper slicing abilities.

mattd, how much is the sander including shipping? Leevalley says theres doesnt come with the motor so its $55 + motor + belts + shipping.
 
Originally posted by pendentive
crayola hit the nail right on the head. A small 1x30 or 1x42 belt sander can be had for under $100 - and as low as $40.

Get a leather belt for it and load it up with green compound for "power stropping".


Dan's right about the belt sander. I never use anything else anymore. Don't use a leather belt for stropping, though it's a good way to go. I just turn an old belt inside out and load the fabric backing up with green polishing compound. Works great and it's CHEAP.

Steve
 
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